NinjaGinge
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The most in depth guide to Twitch around.
Props to wRAthoFVuLK for the beastly sig and putting up with my request XD
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The conditions of the battleground are very chaotic and almost never lead to a good testing scenario where you can conclude x is better than y in z conditions.
Here are a few factors that are important to take note.
1.) It is a misconception that you should never focus a tank as an ADC
2.) Items are not the only thing that grant armor (skills, supports, auras)
3.) Attack Speed does not always guarantee you will get more than 1 attack (or 3 in BC case)
Last whisper costs less and there is hardly a situation on an ADC where you can say wow I wish I didn't build Last whisper. It is your reliable friend always there for you.
Reliable, cost efficient damage increase.
Black Cleaver is good too though, especially on Twitch : P
Here are a few factors that are important to take note.
1.) It is a misconception that you should never focus a tank as an ADC
2.) Items are not the only thing that grant armor (skills, supports, auras)
3.) Attack Speed does not always guarantee you will get more than 1 attack (or 3 in BC case)
Last whisper costs less and there is hardly a situation on an ADC where you can say wow I wish I didn't build Last whisper. It is your reliable friend always there for you.
Reliable, cost efficient damage increase.
Black Cleaver is good too though, especially on Twitch : P
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Team comp. Items built. Champion effects. Skills. Runes.
EVERYTHING FACTORS IN.
It is NOT a choice that can be made when looking at a champion or an item. You need to assess EVERYTHING in order to determine which item is actually better. IT'S NEVER THE SAME, one is ALWAYS better than the other in every different game, or the difference in negligible and it doesn't matter.
THIS IS NOT A LINEAR CONCEPT. Stop treating it like one.
If you don't know which one is better, just build LW. Like Vince said, it will never be bad.
Team comp. Items built. Champion effects. Skills. Runes.
EVERYTHING FACTORS IN.
It is NOT a choice that can be made when looking at a champion or an item. You need to assess EVERYTHING in order to determine which item is actually better. IT'S NEVER THE SAME, one is ALWAYS better than the other in every different game, or the difference in negligible and it doesn't matter.
THIS IS NOT A LINEAR CONCEPT. Stop treating it like one.
If you don't know which one is better, just build LW. Like Vince said, it will never be bad.
http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/duffs-336706
Come hang out when I'm streaming! http://www.twitch.tv/dufftime
I'm going to keep my post here blissfully short, but...
The difference in favor of the cleaver becomes WAY greater in the situation in a crit build from both a per/hit perspective and definitely a dps perspective.
This pretty much means you were doing your math wrong. Crit chance and crit damage do not affect the armor value at which LW overtakes TBC.
NinjaGinge wrote:
The difference in favor of the cleaver becomes WAY greater in the situation in a crit build from both a per/hit perspective and definitely a dps perspective.
This pretty much means you were doing your math wrong. Crit chance and crit damage do not affect the armor value at which LW overtakes TBC.
OTGBionicArm wrote: Armored wimminz = badass.
My posts may be long. If this bothers you, don't read them.
My posts may be long. If this bothers you, don't read them.
The Overmyynd
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I generally tend to grab LW on a normal AD build, and BC for AD-on hit hybrid builds (yes, it exists, i've invented it). Generally good for Master Yi, because lets face it, if ANYONE can guarantee they are going to get at least 3 hits on an enemy, its yi.
Master Yi, because lets face it, if ANYONE can guarantee they are going to get at least 3 hits on an enemy, its yi.
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Luther3000 wrote:
Not this thread again. >.>
We have a search bar for a reason. This has been broken down in many many other threads. Please attempt to find your own solutions before creating a new thread.
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Hateryx
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Let me do the honor.
Source: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/pwndo-rocking-it-out-to-pwndoism-updated-113745#chapter19
Source: http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/pwndo-rocking-it-out-to-pwndoism-updated-113745#chapter19
Quoted:
Let's talk about Last Whisper first:
So this thing goes through 40% of the enemies armor. Alot, you think? WRONG!
Let's compare it to other common and less common Armor pen and shred items, being The Black Cleaver, Zeke's Herald and Youmuu's Ghostblade and the effects on some typical enemies you'll come across...
The Black Cleaver: Shreds up to 45 armor.
Lategame, a glasscannon Graves has 72,6 Armor flat + 30 from max stacks of his passive = 102,6 Armor. The Black Cleaver reduces it to 57,6 Armor. Pretty Decent Reduction.
Now the Last Whisper: grants 40% Armor pen.
Taking Graves 102.6 Armor - 40% of it = 61,56 Armor.
"WUTT?" You may ask. "Cleaver shreds more?" Yes it does. So, when you have to chose between buying The Black Cleaver and Last Whisper, you first need to know the "Sweet Spot" of Last Whisper, when it will penetrate more than Cleaver can shred.
45 Armor Shred of Black Cleaver / 40% Armor Pen of Last whisper = 112,5 Armor
The "Sweet Spot", the exact number of Armor the target must have in order for Last Whisper to be more effective than The Black Cleaver is 112,5 Armor. When the Target has 112.5 Armor or more, it is more beneficial to buy Last Whisper in terms of Armor Pen.
The "Sweet Spot" for Youmuu's Ghostblade is 50 Armor. The target must have 50 or more Armor for Last Whisper to be more effective than Stark's or Ghostblade.
So this thing goes through 40% of the enemies armor. Alot, you think? WRONG!
Let's compare it to other common and less common Armor pen and shred items, being The Black Cleaver, Zeke's Herald and Youmuu's Ghostblade and the effects on some typical enemies you'll come across...
The Black Cleaver: Shreds up to 45 armor.
Lategame, a glasscannon Graves has 72,6 Armor flat + 30 from max stacks of his passive = 102,6 Armor. The Black Cleaver reduces it to 57,6 Armor. Pretty Decent Reduction.
Now the Last Whisper: grants 40% Armor pen.
Taking Graves 102.6 Armor - 40% of it = 61,56 Armor.
"WUTT?" You may ask. "Cleaver shreds more?" Yes it does. So, when you have to chose between buying The Black Cleaver and Last Whisper, you first need to know the "Sweet Spot" of Last Whisper, when it will penetrate more than Cleaver can shred.
45 Armor Shred of Black Cleaver / 40% Armor Pen of Last whisper = 112,5 Armor
The "Sweet Spot", the exact number of Armor the target must have in order for Last Whisper to be more effective than The Black Cleaver is 112,5 Armor. When the Target has 112.5 Armor or more, it is more beneficial to buy Last Whisper in terms of Armor Pen.
The "Sweet Spot" for Youmuu's Ghostblade is 50 Armor. The target must have 50 or more Armor for Last Whisper to be more effective than Stark's or Ghostblade.
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NinjaGinge
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BusDriver210 wrote:
We have a search bar for a reason. This has been broken down in many many other threads. Please attempt to find your own solutions before creating a new thread.
I sifted for a little while but came primarily across the debate on one particular champion or another. I'll just dig harder next time
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I guess there's a little change my math and graphs are wrong but I've done a lot of math and checked it over so I really doubt it.
So does someone want to explain why everyone is all over the Last Whisper? Is this another case of everyone joining in the crowd and refusing to look into other things or is this my mistake?