@Jeffy
lol?
I mean, f-ing Nasus clears faster than Tiger jungle and can still gank at 2 easily :P
so...not sure why I'm supposed to feel bad about playing Phoenix jungle and actually being a productive member of my team.
lol?
I mean, f-ing Nasus clears faster than Tiger jungle and can still gank at 2 easily :P
so...not sure why I'm supposed to feel bad about playing Phoenix jungle and actually being a productive member of my team.
The_Nameless_Bard wrote:
@Jeffy
lol?
I mean, f-ing Nasus clears faster than Tiger jungle and can still gank at 2 easily :P
so...not sure why I'm supposed to feel bad about playing Phoenix jungle and actually being a productive member of my team.
If I could get my "print screen" to function properly you'd stop being wrong and simply start being quiet. (while still being wrong)
So because I can't take screen shots of my LoLreplay (for whatever reason) I will simply tell you
I started Machete+5 HP pots
Point in tiger stance
cleared in roughly 3:33
still had 1 HP pot left and I was ~600HP of 750. (which is HP I can gank with safely)
I was running AD reds/armor yellows/MR blues/attack speed quints.
Now I know you guys thought you were right, but you weren't.
Oh and 11/18/1 were my masteries.
Sure it was a bot game, the point being I had no leash still cleared rather quick/had plenty of HP. Both things you both thought Tiger Udyr couldn't do.
Safe to say with a leash I could clear Blue/Wolves/Wraiths/Red maybe ~10-15 seconds faster.
Out of curiosity, did people start considering level 3 the mark for clear times? Because you have well over 750 health by level 4, and that's what used to be used for clear times. Not that jungle viability has much to do with how fast your first clear is.
The reason Tiger jungle sucks is because tiger stance requires expensive AD items, as well as lifesteal and tank stats, and late game, he turns into a zero-threat, unless you're really ****ing fed. Like 15 kills by 30 minutes fed. If you don't get that, his jungle clear speed falls off pretty quick, his damage falls off pretty quick, and you have to pick between buying tank stats and damage. Phoenix jungle clear speed doesn't fall off, it doesn't require any items for damage, and the damage items that do help it also provide tank stats or mobility (eg wit's or shiv/trinity). Aside from the one or two damage/tank items you get on Phoenix, you can focus entirely on buying tank stats and utility, and you'll still remain a threat. In team fights, Phoenix will do more damage than tiger, given the AoE, and you'll be tankier, allowing you to stick in the middle of the fight for longer. Tiger jungle, even fed, is very easily kited by ranged champions, and with the current items and pen calculations, will be out-dps'd late game by most other bruisers. If you want to play Tiger, go counter-pick a Lee in top lane.
The reason Tiger jungle sucks is because tiger stance requires expensive AD items, as well as lifesteal and tank stats, and late game, he turns into a zero-threat, unless you're really ****ing fed. Like 15 kills by 30 minutes fed. If you don't get that, his jungle clear speed falls off pretty quick, his damage falls off pretty quick, and you have to pick between buying tank stats and damage. Phoenix jungle clear speed doesn't fall off, it doesn't require any items for damage, and the damage items that do help it also provide tank stats or mobility (eg wit's or shiv/trinity). Aside from the one or two damage/tank items you get on Phoenix, you can focus entirely on buying tank stats and utility, and you'll still remain a threat. In team fights, Phoenix will do more damage than tiger, given the AoE, and you'll be tankier, allowing you to stick in the middle of the fight for longer. Tiger jungle, even fed, is very easily kited by ranged champions, and with the current items and pen calculations, will be out-dps'd late game by most other bruisers. If you want to play Tiger, go counter-pick a Lee in top lane.
Holy Toledo, Batman, It's Cho'Gath!
Did you ever consider that running Tiger Udyr was for the early game because you'll be building durability late? Late game Udyr is primarily a stun bot...Not some sort of DPS monstrosity. That's what your Carry roles do.
But that's how I look at Udyr, if I wanted to be a damage dealer late I would go Lee Sin. But I'm focused on being the front line of my team as Jungle Udyr. So I itemize accordingly.
The argument was made that "tiger udyr can't gank at level 3 after red because he won't have the HP for it" as well as some sort of opinion that his clear times aren't adequate compared to Phoenix.. I simply was attacking and countering those inaccurate statements.
That was what this whole discussion was about. I was merely stating that Tiger Udyr is actually good, if people actually know what they're doing.
But that's how I look at Udyr, if I wanted to be a damage dealer late I would go Lee Sin. But I'm focused on being the front line of my team as Jungle Udyr. So I itemize accordingly.
The argument was made that "tiger udyr can't gank at level 3 after red because he won't have the HP for it" as well as some sort of opinion that his clear times aren't adequate compared to Phoenix.. I simply was attacking and countering those inaccurate statements.
That was what this whole discussion was about. I was merely stating that Tiger Udyr is actually good, if people actually know what they're doing.
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Oh...I also forgot to mention Ian stacking armor on Malphite against a fed AP Yi and then wondering why he was dying