BotrK Math! (diminishing returns)

[quote=willeke]Ty for the change. So yes sorry im from germany and thats why i use commas :P. Patchnotes for 3.5 says: Ability Power ratio on the fire cone increased to 0.45 from 0.15 Im also testing Trini and stuff so it will be AP in there. Ok i think im ready for the whole math, except i could do the Liandrys and BotrK in a functional term with HP on the X-Axis to see where it breaks even with the others, but i guess i just take a "dummy" with 2500HP. For penetration i try to go for a "dummy" with 100 MR or Armor. So 100 Armor reduces 100AD Damage to 50 overall Damage. If i got 15 Flat Penetration i do 54 overall Damage, so it gives me +8%. If i try to calculate an Item with penetration i just add +8% to every source of that damage. (for liandrys +8% to PPr and PAoe and Liandrys burns) - right?[/quote]

[quote=DarkPercy]Well... That's not the way I would do it but yes that can work. If you cut any magic damage you by half and then add +8.1081% on that number it works yes. There is a simpler way though. As you already know, Damage reduction is calculated this way: 1 - 100/(100+resistance) So if the enemy has 100 magic resist but you have 15 magic pen, he has 85 magic resist against you and any magic damage you do to him will be reduced by 1 - 100/185 = 45.94595 % So if you do 200 magic damage to him, he will actually take 200 - (200x0.4584595) = 108.108 damage If liandrys does 25 magic damage, the enemy will actually take 25 - 45.94595% = 13.5135 damage (and 25/2 + 8.1081% also equals 13.5135) Etc. You have to remember that Armor only blocks physical damage though. You said an enemy had 100 -15 armor so it means your 100 AD autoattack will do ~54 damage. That is correct. However, any MAGIC damage you do will still reduced by the full 100 magic resist.[/quote]

[quote=utopus]Perhaps it would be best to just calculate the raw amount of damage dealt, and factor in resistances later[/quote]

[quote=DarkPercy][quote=utopus] Perhaps it would be best to just calculate the raw amount of damage dealt, and factor in resistances later [/quote] No because if you do that it will make your [[liandry's torment]] and/or [[blade of the ruined king]] seem like they deal less damage than they actually do. For example, the enemy has 2500 HP and 100 armor, you have [[blade of the ruined king]] and 100 total AD. You hit the enemy, he takes exactly 125 + 100 physical damage because fuck resistances. Then, the next hit should do 113.75 + 100 damage, but that's actually wrong because the enemy does not have 2275 HP left, he actually has 2387.5 HP so your autoattack will do 119.375 + 100 (before armor) physical damage so it does matter :P.[/quote]

[quote=willeke]Plus +15 Magic Pen against a 0MR Target results in extremly more damage than ona 100MR target. (btw new PBE change for udyr: Udyr Tiger Stance ( Q ) activation damage changed to 80/130/180/230/280 ( + 3.0 AD ) from 80/140/200/260/320 ( + 2.5 AD ) )[/quote]

[quote=DarkPercy][quote=willeke] Plus +15 Magic Pen against a 0MR Target results in extremly more damage than ona 100MR target. (btw new PBE change for udyr: Udyr Tiger Stance ( Q ) activation damage changed to 80/130/180/230/280 ( + 3.0 AD ) from 80/140/200/260/320 ( + 2.5 AD ) ) [/quote] 15 magic penetration will not make you deal ANY extra damage at all against a 0 MR target :P. PENETRATION cannot make an enemy's resistance value go under 0. Resistance REDUCTION can. And while PBE changes are nice, they are not official changes![/quote]

[quote=willeke]Thats true - im basically to stupid for functional terms so i just go for my dummy version. thanks for the help btw : ) - update this when im done with the math.[/quote]

[quote=DarkPercy]No problem. Just ask if you want any other help :3[/quote]

[quote=CounterSnipe]You don't need math to buy the item, all you need is reasoning. Brk is purchased mainly by champions that already have %HP damage abilities, such as [[varus]], [[kog'maw]], and [[vayne]]. This item only further enhances their damage, and makes them a threat. Btk is also very effective as an engage/disengage tool. So you can use to to chase people down, or you can run away. Trying to calculate the value of this isn't something I think anyone can do. Finally, Btk's utility comes from having the ability to chunk down your opponent's HP to around 50%. At that point, the %damage gets cut in half and becomes somewhat negligible. When your opponents get this low, you're going to be counting on your [[infinity edge]] (or w/e high DPS item you have) to actually get you the kill. Overall, Brk is more of a niche pick depending on your carry and the enemy team. I consider it to be more of a complementary item based on the items you already have or the skill set of your champion.[/quote]

[quote=DarkPercy][quote=CounterSnipe] You don't need math to buy the item, all you need is reasoning. Brk is purchased mainly by champions that already have %HP damage abilities, such as [[varus]], [[kog'maw]], and [[vayne]]. This item only further enhances their damage, and makes them a threat. [/quote] You are right that Maths can't tell you which item is the best all the time. It is also right to say that the only thing you need is reasoning. But you see, to have good reasoning, you have to know about how much damage which item gives and which item gives most damage to which champions.... and to do that, you need........... *drum roll* maths! Of course slows and stuff like that must be taken in consideration after doing the maths as well.[/quote]