Gragas and AP focus

[quote=luizdeh]Hello people, new here with some questions! I've been playing Gragas a lot recently, I think I'm 11-4 or something with him. Having lots of fun. This in Normals btw. So I decided to read up on what experienced players think of him, using guides and forums. And the thing that caught my attention was that most guides I read don't mention CDR as an important stat. A couple mentioned getting a Morello sometime or other... I get it every single game. Now, I'm not an experienced player whatsoever, but checking out Gragas' kit, I started building him thinking I needed a high damage output, which meant, for me, AP+CDR. Usually I start Doran's Ring and go for RoA, Sorc Shoes, Rabadon's, Morello and then whatever I fell like trying out (Athene's, Lichbane, Zhonya, Iceborn, the usual AP stuff or some defensive item). This gives me enough tankiness early game and eventually start hitting like a truck mid game. I know Gragas relies on burst damage, but if you can't burst someone down you end up running around with nothing to do while waiting on cooldowns, and that bugs me a lot. TL;DR: I like CDR a lot on Gragas. Most people don't bother. Why?[/quote]

[quote=Satella]Itemizing for CDR makes you do less damage in teamfights since most CDR items except DFG (which you should not buy on Gragas) have low AP. Your role in teamfights is to deliver lots of upfront burst and disrupt the enemy team with your ultimate; sustained DPS should be your AD Carry's job. Since teamfights are decided very quickly, it's much better to do 1800 AoE damage instantly rather than doing 1200 AoE damage twice over 8 seconds.[/quote]

[quote=luizdeh]@Satella: thanks for the response and advice. I guessed that would be the correct way to go in Ranked. But I'm still playing Normals, where chaotic teamfights happen all the time and I need to be able to dish out more sustained damage, because a lot can happen in these games. So I guess I should just be ready to focus more on AP when its time to play Ranked. Nevertheless, the [[Morellonomicon]] I mentioned I like to use gives 75 AP, CDR, much appreciated Mana Regen AND gives a nice Grievous Wounds bonus that can only help in teamfights and 1v1s. I can't see how swapping something out for it would hurt. For instance, a final build of Zhonya's, Rabadon's, Sorc Shoes, Morello, Void Staff and Lich Bane would work very well would it not? Other items can offer a bit more AP while losing the CDR and regen. Or maybe trading Morello for more armor or getting some MR might be nice. Anyways, just thinking on what could work well.[/quote]

[quote=Kuukai85]Honestly i can't see why don't use the DFG. High AP and a nice active to dish more dmg are that bad?[/quote]

[quote=Satella]No, DFG is good to add to his burst if you're inclined to build him as a single-target assassin (in which case you want [[Lich Bane]] also), it's just that I feel in the current meta you're much better off with building survivability/utility AP items like [icon=Abyssal Scepter size=16][icon=Zhonya's Hourglass size=16] instead of an item that adds single-target burst.[/quote]

[quote=Pheyniex]i think the best thing you can do is abuse the frequency you can use [[Explosive Cask]]. [[Lux]] builds usually fit him well, especially if you go for [[Morellonomicon]]. ofc, you should itemize according to each game, always.[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]Gragas: AP + HP Pinch in MR/Ar to counter the main source of enemy dmg.[/quote]

[quote=luizdeh]@Pheyniex: I agree, that's one of the reasons I opened this thread. Every Gragas player seems to focus solely on burst, but everything can be covered with the right itemization. You don't lose that much burst if you don't go DFG and opt for more survivability/sustainability, especially with everybody and their mother stacking health. Sure, in higher ELO, where teamcomps and roles are more defined you can actually focus on standing back, throwing barrels all around... but that's not the reality of 90% of players out there. @Darcurse: for damage mitigation purposes, do you go for an AP/mitigation hybrid (like Zhonya's or Athene's) or straight up defensive item?[/quote]

[quote=Satella]Building Zhonya's and Abyssal Scepter give you pretty much perfect defensive stats (>100 armor and MR + tons of AP). One single HP item combined with drunken rage will make you very durable, plus there's a Zhonya's active.[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]Not rly what I call durable. Exclude Abyssal and you got a Lux build at best: Ranged caster with kite capabilities. Gragas is mid-range/close quarter caster. More on the poke side. If you build him glass cannon like this, you HAVE to drop ulti early on the enemy, before he gets a chance to close in on you. Your charge isn't good to escape either, not to mention that you'd waste a group slow/single-target nuke. It's more prefernce, but if I want to play a ranged nuker, I wouldn't want to go for a mid-range caster with defense capability in his kit.[/quote]