Epiphany

[quote=Vynertje]In all honesty, 4v5 in high levels IS gg. They just punish you every single time. I've never seen someone win 4v5 in plat+ elo, not even once. The amount of map pressure that is lost by having a man down (and usually also damage) is huge.[/quote]

[quote=sirell][quote=idmb22] Well, I don't agree that a "Victory" is a "Victory" no matter what. I believe that is hypocrital, not pointing at you just general speaking. Also, granted, it could be negative attitud, I will have that in mind next time. Althought I don't think it is since they performed worse than us and they knew it and that is why they reported us for sure, because they were aware of how they were throwing the "easy" game they had.[/quote] I don't get where the hypocrisy comes in. How is it hypocritical when it happens to everyone? A victory is a victory, a loss is a loss whether you accept it or not. It's a reality you can't change. Hell, there are times I've lost as 5 against 4. Getting a patch in the middle of a game, causing me to DC and RC 15 minutes later into the game after it patched (just me, no one else in the game). It's always unfair. Also, I believe written in the Summoner's Code, there's something like, 'I will play to the best of my abilities' which includes taking advantage of a 3v2 situation. What do you expect them to do? Sit around, twiddle their thumbs...? Play with only 2 people whilst one watches from the Nexus...? Saying "GG, but undeserved" is like saying, "If we had our best in this game, we wouldn't have lost." It cheapens their victory. They did what they SHOULD have done, which is abuse the fact that you lost a person. Hey, I'm not saying what you did is reportable by any means (I wouldn't have), but I can certainly see how it can be considered disrespectful. [quote=idmb22] They won because they decided to split-push when they saw fighting 2v3 wasn't going well for them. Before that, every fight we won, we took control of Altars and push and while they were defending their outer turrets, I killed vilemaw 2 times. As far as I know, that is map control. Once they realized we were weaker 1v2 and 1v1, they split-pushed and got all map control (altars and vilemaw), they took our outer and inner turrets and we couldn't do anything, except wait until the game ends. I was mad because I didn't know how to force them to fight us 2v3 again. I didn't also know what should I have built in order to still being tanky and deal enough damage so we could kill them. They had the upper hand due to their comp: Vi + Panth + Lux against Leona and Shyvana. In 2v3 fights we won because we shut down Lux and Panth and then Vi could only escape or die. However, when they forced us to separate, I couldn't deal with Panth + Lux and Leona couldn't deal with Vi alone.[/quote] In a splitpush situation like that, you can try forcing a 2v2 fight and if you both survive, have 1 recall whilst the other keep pushing. I agree, the situation isn't ideal for you and there probably isn't an ideal solution to deal with this other than to base-race perhaps. But if you had THAT MUCH map control early, why didn't you push your advantage to win earlier? Also, if you were winning the 2v3 fights, why didn't you push? Okay, in all fairness, perhaps you couldn't. Perhaps you couldn't do anything at all but accept your defeat. (Or maybe perhaps you could have picked better champions than [[shyvana]] and [[leona]], I don't know) [quote=idmb22] Regarding your last questions. Well, I didn't say we would have won if we would have been 3 (I think you understood that by yuoyrself), I said they didn't deserve to win since they performed worse tan us. If our 3rd member came in and fed them, well... I am completely fine with that, because it was "our team's fault" for feeding them. Also, we didn't have the "Best Champs" to do a 2v3 in mid/late game anyway, so we would have probably lost anyway, no matter what.[/quote] So how would you liked them to have played in order to have their win 'deserved'? Perhaps they wouldn't have won 3v3 but might-have-beens and shoulda-coulda-wouldas are completely irrelevant as to who wins in the end. If C9 got to the World finals and then suddenly Sneaky and Hai had to be subbed due to unforeseen circumstances, C9 would have some pretty big balls to still say, 'the win is undeserved, we couldn't give our best'. At the end of the day, it's down to what is on the scoreboard as to who wins or not. Whether it was 'deserved' or not is irrelevant. Who holds the Champion's Cup, who gets the prize money, who gets Gold/Platinum/Diamond/Challenger tier are those who win. The 3 people they had performed better than the 2 people you had. It's a brutal but simple fact. There's no need to say "GG but undeserved" because the DC is not their problem nor their fault. They didn't use any underhand techniques nor did they do anything 'unsportsmanlike'. I think term no.6 says 'Show Humility in Victory, and Grace in Defeat'. [quote=idmb22] I have to say that the 3rd member of our team was a premade from Leona, so he might have fed or not I will never know, what I know is that, Leona told me he was having problems with his ISP. Now, tell me, should I report that player for his ISP messing with him? I didn't report him for AFK/Leave or whatever, because it wasn't really his fault. That is why I believe that ppl use the "Report Tool" too often for things that don't really matter. I have a really high concept of education and manners and trust me when I say I always try to be nice with everybody and mantain a good environment inside and outside the game. I know how bad is when someone tries to bully or mess with you, I know how bad it feels, that why I don't do it.[/quote] I didn't really mention any of this. I don't bother reporting leavers/AFKs if their name is already in red during the end-game screen. Otherwise, I do actually report people who leave games. I even report my friends for it too. There's 1 in particular who will without fail DC at least once every 3-4 games and has also been banned 3-4 times in the past for it. It's one of the reasons I never ask him to duo either. [quote=idmb22] Edit: Well Vyn, we are talking of "Silver Elo" games, so, there is still plenty of room for outplays, probably at high elo is no longer the case, but in Silver, I agree with Sirell that it is possible to win 4v5 and 2v3, but it depends on several things, not just the players.[/quote] This I agree with. My point was simply that saying that having the last player who left is better than going 4v5 is not necessarily true. You might just prefer that 4v5 situation when they go 0/20/1. Of course, it's obviously not likely to be the case. [quote=idmb22] Edit 2: I am going to say more. It only happened me a few times (3 times actually), but in those cases I was reported by 9 players after doing something I considered "good" and "fair" for the sake of sportmanship during some normal games in summoner's rift. In all of them I was jungling as Shyvana and well I normally invade enemy jungle. I noticed the enemy jungler was still Lv 1, so when he came back and said he got a dc I gave him 3 minutes of jungle time to catch up and I won't invade his jungle. Well, despite we won the games, my team and the whole enemy team reported me for "helping enemy team"... and I was like... this is a joke right? As I have said I have never been banned, but I can't wonder myself if I have a wrong concept of fairplay and sportmanship. [/quote] I don't think you have the wrong idea of fairplay/sportsmanship if it's any comfort. But as I said earlier, not trying your absolute best (even if it means taking advantage of a DC) does actually qualify as assisting enemy team. Imagine you lost that game instead. Do you dare say it was because you let them have a grace period to catch up? Because by all technicalities, you did actually assist them in 'getting back into the game'. Like I said, I have no real objection to this. LoL was intended to be a friendly (even if competitive) game, so I don't see what you did as wrong (and I think there's something in the Code about not having fun at the expense of others'), but my opinions don't ultimately have an impact on whether something is punishable after reports.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]if im on the 5 half of the 4v5 and i win a game that the other team would have won i tell them "gg sorry for your loss you would have won" if im in the 4 and i lose a game that would have been won i just shut up about it, no point getting mad over a something you cant control[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael]see what I'm talking about? I take blue because Fizz is feeding the fuck out of leblanc and all of a sudden i'm blacklisted and everything is my fault and I'm getting reported for things that Thresh said, all because one player is butthurt that he didn't get blue while he was feeding. And one day I'm going to get banned from these one person reports.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]then maybe you should have communicated better with your team... of course you'd expect a mid laner to be mad if the jungler took his blue wihtout telling him.[/quote]

[quote=sirell]To be honest, the mid laner is probably gonna hate it either way.[/quote]

[quote=Kinen]Sometimes I tell my jungler not to give me blue :/ Depends how badly things are going and which champ I'm playing.[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]yeah but if he told him beforehand that "im going to take blue to secure it" or something of the sort there wouldn't have been that whole conflict.[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael]I started blue then he pinged it and I said "im taking it, a buff on you is a buff on leblanc" and that's when the rage started[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]well, no wonder...lmao.[/quote]