Tanky mages top

[quote=luizdeh]Add [[kennen]] to that please. This little asshole is hard to deal with.[/quote]

[quote=EdisonKhoo][quote=luizdeh] Add [[kennen]] to that please. This little asshole is hard to deal with. [/quote] But he said "Tanky Mage" :/[/quote]

[quote=SkidmarkD][[Gragas]] has sustain and damage reduction. [[Ryze]] is kinda squishy early on, but has the potential to be unstoppable. The fat boy has immense strength and can bully you of out lane. While sustaining his mana/hp. The other one focusses on mana for his strength so he rarely runs low. Add to that his lock and nuke capability and he's quite deadly. Every other mana using toplane is going to have a hard time against [[Renekton]], [[Dr. Mundo]], [[Shyvana]], [[Lee Sin]], etc. You'd need to be able to poke them down without using mana and without the chance of counter pokes. Seen a few peeps trying [[Jayce]] since the tear change, but that hasn't worked out very well. I do think [[Annie]] might work up top though. Epicly long AA range and her stun is sweet. Ganks can be stopped dead in their tracks and diving her is kinda like standing under the tower and dancing. But that's just me. :D EDIT: I prefer mana less champs up top, cuz that means I'll only have to focus on HP sustain. Harder when you need to focus on both HP and mana.[/quote]

[quote=TheKut][quote=SkidmarkD] [[Gragas]] has sustain and damage reduction. [[Ryze]] is kinda squishy early on, but has the potential to be unstoppable. The fat boy has immense strength and can bully you of out lane. While sustaining his mana/hp. The other one focusses on mana for his strength so he rarely runs low. Add to that his lock and nuke capability and he's quite deadly. Every other mana using toplane is going to have a hard time against [[Renekton]], [[Dr. Mundo]], [[Shyvana]], [[Lee Sin]], etc. You'd need to be able to poke them down without using mana and without the chance of counter pokes. Seen a few peeps trying [[Jayce]] since the tear change, but that hasn't worked out very well. I do think [[Annie]] might work up top though. Epicly long AA range and her stun is sweet. Ganks can be stopped dead in their tracks and diving her is kinda like standing under the tower and dancing. But that's just me. :D EDIT: I prefer mana less champs up top, cuz that means I'll only have to focus on HP sustain. Harder when you need to focus on both HP and mana. [/quote] Yes and that's one of the issues, but for example [[Lissandra]] can rely on her passive to not run out of mana, [[Elise]] has her spider form and [[Ryze]] you mentioned. These three can manage it by themselves and all others ([[Swain]], [[Vel'Koz]], [[Galio]] will have a [[Chalice of harmony]] in their core anyway, and they will most likely get that on the first trip back. I was against a [[Singed]] as [[Swain]] a while back and all I had to do was harrass with AAs and my [[Torment]] and he would fall really far back in farm. I didn't even fall below half mana once before I got my chalice and could start to harrass really heavy.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote] These three can manage it by themselves and all others ([[Swain]], [[Vel'Koz]], [[Galio]] will have a [[Chalice of harmony]] in their core anyway, and they will most likely get that on the first trip back. [/quote] Being forced to itemize [[Chalice of Harmony]] as a crutch for mana problems already makes you inherently weaker, especially against physical damage bruisers. Chalice might be okay against Singed, Mundo, or Shyvana; but any other bruiser will destroy you if you're forced into chalice. Why not play those champions mid? It's a lot less punishing, they have access to blue buff, and they can usually keep Chalice in their core without fear of being dominated by a bruiser. I just can't see why you would gimp yourself and put yourself against usually unfavorable match-ups when you could run those champions mid lane for a lot more success[/quote]

[quote=TheKut][quote=Mooninites] [quote] These three can manage it by themselves and all others ([[Swain]], [[Vel'Koz]], [[Galio]] will have a [[Chalice of harmony]] in their core anyway, and they will most likely get that on the first trip back. [/quote] Being forced to itemize [[Chalice of Harmony]] as a crutch for mana problems already makes you inherently weaker, especially against physical damage bruisers. Chalice might be okay against Singed, Mundo, or Shyvana; but any other bruiser will destroy you if you're forced into chalice. Why not play those champions mid? It's a lot less punishing, they have access to blue buff, and they can usually keep Chalice in their core without fear of being dominated by a bruiser. I just can't see why you would gimp yourself and put yourself against usually unfavorable match-ups when you could run those champions mid lane for a lot more success [/quote] That's what I was trying to find out. How will for example [[Swain]] or [[Ryze]] actually do against a [[Renekton]] or [[Trundle]] since the clear advantage they will have is the fact that they can harrass from a safe distance while still working as semi-tanks. How will the lack of a solotop tank affect late game? How well will you actually do in lane? How will teamfights work when you sacrifice a bit of tankyness for more damage?[/quote]

[quote=luizdeh][quote=EdisonKhoo] But he said "Tanky Mage" :/ [/quote] [[abyssal scepter]]+[[zhonya's hourglass]] make him tankier than most mages. You can also build [[rylai's crystal scepter]] to be perma-annoying.[/quote]

[quote=SkidmarkD][quote=Mooninites] [quote] These three can manage it by themselves and all others ([[Swain]], [[Vel'Koz]], [[Galio]] will have a [[Chalice of harmony]] in their core anyway, and they will most likely get that on the first trip back. [/quote] Being forced to itemize [[Chalice of Harmony]] as a crutch for mana problems already makes you inherently weaker, especially against physical damage bruisers. Chalice might be okay against Singed, Mundo, or Shyvana; but any other bruiser will destroy you if you're forced into chalice. Why not play those champions mid? It's a lot less punishing, they have access to blue buff, and they can usually keep Chalice in their core without fear of being dominated by a bruiser. I just can't see why you would gimp yourself and put yourself against usually unfavorable match-ups when you could run those champions mid lane for a lot more success [/quote] Well if you're blue side and your mid is melee, I don't quite see the issue with taking a mage up top. Purple side, and/or having a mage mid, that's just making it harder on yourself.[/quote]