Ask a Diamond [Week 1: Bot lane]

[quote=Barph][quote=Darealone] [quote=Vynertje] IMO annie shouldn't be played as a support anymore [/quote] Wait why? D: [/quote] Because shes scum!!![/quote]

[quote=utopus]Hello, i have another early-mid game tactics question. Let's say it is mid-game, and your team is ahead, but not decisively so - like lets say you've gotten a dragon, and are up 1 side turret on your opposing team. Your team decides to group mid, but the other team has a ******* *** of a champion that can wave clear like a beast ([[ziggs]], [[lux]] e.g.) How do you siege turrets / gain map control of champions that clear minion waves safely, and easily?[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje][quote=utopus] Hello, i have another early-mid game tactics question. Let's say it is mid-game, and your team is ahead, but not decisively so - like lets say you've gotten a dragon, and are up 1 side turret on your opposing team. Your team decides to group mid, but the other team has a ******* *** of a champion that can wave clear like a beast ([[ziggs]], [[lux]] e.g.) How do you siege turrets / gain map control of champions that clear minion waves safely, and easily? [/quote] Don't siege but try to force objectives outside the lanes. Take control of their whole jungle through wards, time & take every buff and starve them from gold, and occasionally try to force a fight for dragon. Unless the enemy is out of mana / you can poke him down / you can dive, there's no way you're gonna take a turret like that.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]any tips for laning against a twitch? no other adc really gives me too much trouble other than twitch, i seem to have a problem with him with his invisibility and the lack of oracles till level 9, plus dropping a pink ward wont work if a support or twitch can destroy it from range[/quote]

[quote=Vynertje]Try to avoid extended trades as much as possible so he doesn't get the chance to pop his passive + expunge on you is the best advice I could give. Besides that, you can get something like [[leona]] + [[lucian]] who can just stunlock him and kill him before he can even stealth up, or completely poke him out of lane with a [[caitlyn]] + [[nami]] lane.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=PsiGuard] Since I enjoy tier lists I'll make one too! :D Tier 1: [[Thresh]], [[Leona]], [[Morgana]], [[Karma]] Tier 2: [[Annie]], [[Alistar]], [[Nami]], [[Lulu]], [[Zyra]], [[Sona]] Tier 3: [[Taric]], [[Blitzcrank]], [[Fiddlesticks]], [[Janna]] [/quote] This is a more accurate tier list. I don't really think there is a god tier, [[leona]] and [[thresh]] don't dominate enough to be considered god tier and their certainly not must pick or ban champs[/quote]

[quote=xIchi][quote=Vynertje] Try to avoid extended trades as much as possible so he doesn't get the chance to pop his passive + expunge on you is the best advice I could give. Besides that, you can get something like [[leona]] + [[lucian]] who can just stunlock him and kill him before he can even stealth up, or completely poke him out of lane with a [[caitlyn]] + [[nami]] lane. [/quote] Tho, you implied it. Burst and Poke are what counters Twitch. (I just summarized, I hope you don't have a problem with this). If you really feel the need, get that pink and drop it for the decisive battle against him. Once Twitch is behind, he won't be able to get up that fast. Especially, cus of his lacking insta-escape, he will be locked down even faster (unless your team falls prey to his spray and pray :D)[/quote]

[quote=Embracing]@utopus: Preemptively force the enemy in a lose-lose situation. Get someone else to shove a side lane / make one side lane stack and push somehow. Then, when you're shoving the lane where you're sieging, the enemies either have to back off and lose the turret, or face issues with their other turret getting shoved by minions. @dill: Depends who you're playing. The most effective way to poop on him is to abuse short bursts. Like if you're playing Lucian, a Q auto will probably trade for an auto or two + expunge, and you win that trade pretty heavily.[/quote]

[quote=Nyara]So far, how you can protect bot lane from ganks in an effective way? I mean, let's say we pushed the lane, we have the tribush and dragon pit warded, but then, a savage [[Lee Sin]] peaks up a the upper limit of your visions, use his first gap closer, then flash, then throws his Q and you're pretty much over from there, what you can do there or to prevent that? What I want to mean, what you can do to protect your carry from Junglers with ultra-mega-huge gap closers like [[Lee Sin]], [[Pantheon]] or [[Nocturne]]? Just ward more afar too seen them coming (with the subsequent problem your carry will suffer 2vs1 each time you have to ward) or just play close to your tower? (That often becomes in being forced to farm undertower, when I'm ADC I have no problem with that, but when I'm support almost none of my ADCs are capable of farming under tower). Considering they can close a ultra huge gap, WHAT you can do if they lane gank you? BTW, against [[Twitch]] - Let your support carry a pink always or just buy yourself if you're the carry, whatever works. - Drop the pink to finish him if he attempts to escape. - Never trade with him unless you're [[Tristana]] or [[Miss Fortune]], you will not win the trade. - Rather than trading with him, just poke him for afar, [[Twitch]]'s work range is really low. - You "can" trade him if he is a lot lowest than you in health, doesn't matter then if you lose the trade. - If you can't poke him (if you're [[Draven]] for example), burst him out. - If you can't poke or burst, just push the lane and farm, [[Twitch]] can't counter push you. - If you can't poke, burst or push for whatever reason, your lane is pretty dead: - Force teamfights or farm as much as possible to being of use in mid and late game, too. On teamfights it is a bit hardest because it depends more of how [[Twitch]] execute his moveset and his feed (as a pure autoattacker, Twitch can be nullified pretty hard on early game) than anything else, just consider to upgrade the red trinket or have always a pink ward available to hunt him, it is also recommended to not teamfight in the jungle against a [[Twitch]] as he can pretty much sweep your whole team with his ultimate there.[/quote]

[quote=Joxuu]The best way is to ward deep in their jungle. Know where junglers like [[pantheon]] and [[nocturne]] started. If let's say [[pantheon]] started red, he will most likely be 6 at ~7:20. You should let bot lane get pushed to being ungankable or you ward his red. If [[pantheon]] started blue, he will be around bot lane in little less than ~9:00. Generally understanding the enemy jungler. Second way is to predirect the gank. If their bot lane suddenly start playing super aggressive like coming for you behind a minion wave, you can guess that the jungler is close. (Tons of ways of predirecting ganks. You will learn within time)[/quote]