7.4 Tier List + AMA

[quote=Cooper112]Next patch is gonna be rise of tanks in jungle. For some reason when riot nerfs or buffs something it is always op they cant find a middle ground where alot of things are good or strong. So prob see rise of tanks and fall of elise, lee and all assasins in jungle.[/quote]

[quote=Kazega][quote=Cooper112] Next patch is gonna be rise of tanks in jungle. For some reason when riot nerfs or buffs something it is always op they cant find a middle ground where alot of things are good or strong. So prob see rise of tanks and fall of elise, lee and all assasins in jungle. [/quote] That's not really why Riot over does something. whenever they do do something like that, it is not in a so great a way that one thing becomes a "first order optimal strategy," or "this wins every single time so do it." Riot does a great job at avoiding this kind of thing. If one strategy is Overpowered for whatever reason, it is never going to be by so much that skill can't overcome it. [spoiler=The Blizzard Anecdote]The "First Order Optimal Strategy" thing has happened before: back in the days of the first Starcraft and Broodwar, The techs achieved perfect balance, a phenomena where all the units were perfectly matched up based on costs, power, and other factors. This lead to a problem though: The only real strat to use now, was the Zerg Rush. It became a "First Order Optimal Strategy." It wasn't really the chess match most of tend to see Starcraft as. The game became both players trying to 4-move Checkmate the other. Naturally, the faster players won and moved up the ladder, the slower players lost, got faster and moved up the ladder more slowly. When Blazzard realized this, they nerfed the Zerg rush by increasing the cost of a the Spawning Pool, the basic structure required to make your first attacking units. Zerg rushers from all levels dropped in the ladders after that. The Optimal Strategy, and most times ONLY, stragegy that these players knew wasn't the best strategy anymore. They didn't learn how to do anything else. They didn't learn mid game basics, how to take bases, map control or anything really that matters to Starcraft today.The other players, who could now defend themselves better because the rush came later, thrived because they knew how to go to the mid game.[/spoiler][/quote]

[quote=Aeadar]Are you going to change the support tiers due to the [[ardent censer]], the supports with AoE heals/shields are much better now and shields with simultaneous shields w/ AA buffs([[Lulu]]/[[Janna]]) are very powerful.[/quote]

[quote=DillButt64]i wouldnt say buffs to some of the worst junglers as of right now is going to be the "rise of tank junglers" i would wait until they put out the golem changes before screaming something is OP[/quote]

[quote=Jimmydoggga 2.0]Any thoughts on Skarner atm?[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu][img=http://puu.sh/9G6sr/36698606b8.png] H4x spotted[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender][quote=Janitsu] [img=http://puu.sh/9G6sr/36698606b8.png] H4x spotted [/quote] my team carried the fuk outta me that game lmao I've been spamming skarner, I plan to bring him out in play-ins. I think he is very strong. Stats aren't too impressive, but my KDA in these games is 4.5 which is pretty good. One of the losses is the one game I played him post "rework" when he was total garbage [img=http://puu.sh/9GnX1/80840528a9.jpg] Ardent censer is overrated as fuck imo. Don't think it'll change much. People play elise as a tank jungle most of the time, and lee sin doesn't mind going golem, or just full tank after elder lizard, they aren't going anywhere unless they get nerfed sorry to say. You tend to make a lot of claims that are unsubstantiated or just flat out incorrect, you should really research things before you bring them up lol. Chogath sucks sorry. Hes ok in lane but falls off massively later because if he goes tank he isn't threatening to carries, and if he goes dmg he evaporates unless hes ahead, and hes pretty weak with 6 items in a teamfight compared to most other champs anyway. Also if you die lategame, GL getting back to 6 stacks, which greatly hampers cho, as if he isn't 6 stacks he tends to die easier which makes it even harder to restack. If you get caught without ult in a teamfight ur legit 100% useless.[/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri][quote=Kazega]That's not really why Riot over does something. whenever they do do something like that, it is not in a so great a way that one thing becomes a "first order optimal strategy," or "this wins every single time so do it." Riot does a great job at avoiding this kind of thing. If one strategy is Overpowered for whatever reason, it is never going to be by so much that skill can't overcome it.[/quote] I agree that they do a pretty good job with their balancing. What amazes me is how small changes can affect things. For example, I used to jungle [[nautilus]] all the time, but when they lowered his shield damage just slightly, I suddenly wasn't getting as many kills while ganking, which meant I wasn't getting the gear I needed to tank well, and I started dying a lot more later in the game. Similarly, reducing [[rammus]]'s taunt from 3 seconds to 2.25 seconds really affected how effective he was. Small changes can affect things so much.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=MungoGeri] [quote=Kazega]That's not really why Riot over does something. whenever they do do something like that, it is not in a so great a way that one thing becomes a "first order optimal strategy," or "this wins every single time so do it." Riot does a great job at avoiding this kind of thing. If one strategy is Overpowered for whatever reason, it is never going to be by so much that skill can't overcome it.[/quote] I agree that they do a pretty good job with their balancing. What amazes me is how small changes can affect things. For example, I used to jungle [[nautilus]] all the time, but when they lowered his shield damage just slightly, I suddenly wasn't getting as many kills while ganking, which meant I wasn't getting the gear I needed to tank well, and I started dying a lot more later in the game. Similarly, reducing [[rammus]]'s taunt from 3 seconds to 2.25 seconds really affected how effective he was. Small changes can affect things so much. [/quote] You mean you thought they were small changes. Maybe Riot thought so as well and had no idea what kind of impact it would have (my money's on that tbh). Furthermore, I do not think that Riot does a good job at balancing at all. They just keep nerfing whatever is popular, fail to foresee consequences, act too late on balacing catastrophes (e.g. Cleaver incident, Kassadin, Braum), and they seem content with only 15% of the champions - which is probably generous - seeing competitive play. I honestly think that Riot does not have a clue with what they're doing. Before I could blame it on them being fairly inexperienced but right now there's no longer an excuse. LoL has grown to be one of the most popular games out there, Riot has earnt plenty of money as a result, and they've been working with and on the game for years now so I definitely expect something better.[/quote]

[quote=Nebrasketball]People underestimate how difficult it is to balance 100+ champs. Blizzard can't even balance 3 civs[/quote]