Official QQ Thread

[quote=Mooninites][quote=Luther3000] Her kit is dumb and toxic either way. I don't find it that fun to play against a champion knowing that even if you're way ahead, if she randomly picks up two or three kills or the game goes to lategame you [i]will[/i] be outscaled massively.[/quote] Then nerf every late game champion, [[ryze]], [[hecarim]], [[karthus]], [[cassiopeia]], [[jax]], [[irelia]], [[vayne]], [[kog'maw]], etc. etc. The meta will be fucking terrible again just like it was in S3 when if you got any form of lead at all the game was over. I don't find late game champions toxic simply because they have different power curves. At the same time, [[Tristana]]'s kit has been THE EXACT SAME since Season 1. they've made some minor quality of life changes, but they've done that to every champion. Why do you [i]suddenly[/i] consider her kit toxic? At least come up with some sound reasoning on why she's toxic[/quote]

[quote=utopus]Since there is no more pressure for ADCs to rush a lifesteal item, [[tristana]] can now rush [[infinity edge]], which will greatly smooth out her power curve, and give her an OK mid-game. Additionally, any champions that could mess her up ([[zed]], etc) got nerfed really hard through the buff to [[exhaust]]. Luther thinks that [[tristana]]'s late game is toxic because it is very strong and there is not a whole lot of counter play that you can do. Even when other scaling champions hit their power spike, there are some elements of counterplay to them. for instance, champions like [[ryze]], [[karthus]], and [[cassiopeia]] can still be sieged and poked down. However, there is very little one can do to counterplay a [[tristana]]. She has a long autoattack range, a long distance jump that resets on kill/assist, and a 1000 unit knock back, which almost guarantees her safety in team fights. Because of [[rapid fire]], it is quite likely that she will out DPS your ADC too.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=Mooninites] Then nerf every late game champion, [[ryze]], [[hecarim]], [[karthus]], [[cassiopeia]], [[jax]], [[irelia]], [[vayne]], [[kog'maw]], etc. etc. [/quote] All these champions have counterplay even in late game. Either they're short range and therefore easy to kite and/or focus, or they're extremely squishy with no proper escape. Trist's late game does not have counterplay - you can't exactly kite 700 range and you can't catch her either when she has a jump [i]and[/i] a knockback unless she's horrendously mispositioned. [quote=Mooninites] The meta will be fucking terrible again just like it was in S3 when if you got any form of lead at all the game was over. [/quote] Ironically more or less what happens when Tristana gets a lead. [quote=Mooninites] Why do you [i]suddenly[/i] consider her kit toxic? At least come up with some sound reasoning on why she's toxic [/quote] It was always toxic, it just didn't matter before because she was shit and no one played her. I already gave adequate reasoning.[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu][quote=utopus]Since there is no more pressure for ADCs to rush a lifesteal item, [[tristana]] can now rush [[infinity edge]], which will greatly smooth out her power curve, and give her an OK mid-game. Additionally, any champions that could mess her up ([[zed]], etc) got nerfed really hard through the buff to [[exhaust]]. Luther thinks that [[tristana]]'s late game is toxic because it is very strong and there is not a whole lot of counter play that you can do. Even when other scaling champions hit their power spike, there are some elements of counterplay to them. for instance, champions like [[ryze]], [[karthus]], and [[cassiopeia]] can still be sieged and poked down. However, there is very little one can do to counterplay a [[tristana]]. She has a long autoattack range, a long distance jump that resets on kill/assist, and a 1000 unit knock back, which almost guarantees her safety in team fights. Because of [[rapid fire]], it is quite likely that she will out DPS your ADC too.[/quote] Well to be fair, if you want to make her mid game more viable you are going to rush [[statikk shiv]] in to [[infinity edge]]. There is no reason to rush [[infinity edge]] over [[statikk shiv]] unless you have a huge advantage imo.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=utopus]Since there is no more pressure for ADCs to rush a lifesteal item, [[tristana]] can now rush [[infinity edge]], which will greatly smooth out her power curve, and give her an OK mid-game. [/quote] She still has a bad mid game, IE doesn't make it better, it just means she isn't going to get shit on by everything since BT was never really a good route for her. [quote=utopus] Additionally, any champions that could mess her up ([[zed]], etc) got nerfed really hard through the buff to [[exhaust]]. [/quote] that's a buff across the board for all ADC's. All assassins got nerfed, it's probably more of a buff to [[kog'maw]] and [[vayne]] and immobile ADC's than it was to [[tristana]]. [quote=luther3000] All these champions have counterplay even in late game. Either they're short range and therefore easy to kite and focus, or they're extremely squishy with no proper escape. Trist's late game does not have counterplay - you can't exactly kite 700 range and you can't catch her with a jump and a knockback. [/quote] The entire point of these champions is to carry in the late game. I highly doubt you're able to exploit a [[karthus]] or [[ryze]] once they get 4+ items. The problem is that they're able to get to that point, if you allow a karthus or tristana to get to late game, you should lose. You have opportunities throughout the game to take advantage of them before they reach hypercarry status. [quote=luther3000] Which is more or less what happens when Tristana gets a lead. [/quote] which is should be, because you have to get outplayed pretty hard to allow [[tristana]] any sizable lead. she has a strong early game, but terrible mid game. At some point the player has to be responsible for exploiting the weaknesses of a champion [quote] It was always toxic, it just didn't matter before because she was shit and no one played her. I already gave the reasons. [/quote] LOL so it took 4 seasons for it to [i]suddenly, magically [/i] become toxic.... k bro, I'll let you figure that one out[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000][quote=Mooninites] LOL so it took 4 seasons for it to [i]suddenly, magically [/i] become toxic.... k bro, I'll let you figure that one out[/quote] How the hell did you manage to interpret "was always toxic" as "suddenly, magically become toxic"? I don't even.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]You are literally the only person I know (probably in the world) who would have considered [[tristana]]'s kit 'toxic' in season 2 and 3.[/quote]

[quote=DisturbedFox]I don't know how hard it is to understand that it's not magic that made her kit toxic but the changes to items and summoner spells[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark]Her kit was always toxic, but because the meta never favoured her and she wasn't a strong pick, you just didn't have to deal with that toxic kit unless she managed to make it 40+ minutes into a game. Now that she's strong, you have to deal with that stupid kit almost every single game she's picked, when she gets enough range and items, unless she falls behind to not be too important. Then the game stalls to 40+ minutes and she becomes incredibly frustrating to deal with again. (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻[/quote]

[quote=XeresAce]Is trist really THAT bad? I mean, she was always like this... You can't exactly change a meta dependent champion without completely ruining them :/ Her mid game is pretty shit though, even with statikk shiv rush. Her early game isn't that good either, don't know where people are pulling this from... As long as a champ has something that's exploitable relatively easily they shouldn't be nerfed (too hard, anyways). EDIT: It's your own fault for letting trist casually acquire enough gold to be significant at 40 minutes. I play at around high gold-low plat level and games usually end at 30 minutes therefore I haven't experienced many problems with her. A ticking time bomb is going to kill you if you don't stop it in time -It's just how she works.[/quote]