Vayne in 5 minutes by Ace Ventura

[quote=DuffTime]Nope. You guys have it wrong, I'm telling you. Silver bolts is without a doubt the superior skilling order. You mention it uses an enemies max HP. Have you forgotten entirely that it also adds a large flat damage bonus? Both of you talk about the % true damage. What about the massive flat damage? 60 flat damage? AND a % of true damage? Think logically here... If your target has 800 HP, and you land 3 shots, you're getting 60 flat damage, and 8% of 800, which is 64. in total, 124 damage. I don't need you to be near a wall. I don't need you to be put near a wall. I can land that every 2-3 seconds. If I land that 2 times, it'll take me maybe between 4-6 seconds, never really sat down and counted how long it would take to calculate that, then I've already dealt 248 damage. 3 times? 372 damage. If you can pin them into a wall, you'll get 370 damage. If you can't, you'll get 185. Anybody support that I've ever laned with will tell you the damage is undeniable and it's not hard to get the hits off. I usually leave laning phase with 5 or more kills. I call it drastically superior because that's what it is. It's much much better.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]You know... I might just try to fish out some replays and see if I have games recorded or something. I've explained it to you guys and you won't listen to obvious math. Maybe if you see the actual game play you'll understand.[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100][quote=DuffTime] You mention it uses an enemies max HP. Have you forgotten entirely that it also adds a large flat damage bonus? Both of you talk about the % true damage. What about the massive flat damage? [/quote] [quote=Wayne3100] Same goes for Silver Bolts though (to a lesser extent) as leveling a skill that deals damage based on enemies' max health on every third hit doesn't make a huge difference early game ([u]unless the base true damage is the reason for leveling it early, not sure about the strength of that[/u]). [/quote] I actually mentioned it -.-' Not sure about the strength though. [quote=DuffTime] 60 flat damage? AND a % of true damage? Think logically here... If your target has 800 HP, and you land 3 shots, you're getting 60 flat damage, and 8% of 800, which is 64. in total, 124 damage. I don't need you to be near a wall. I don't need you to be put near a wall. I can land that every 2-3 seconds. If I land that 2 times, it'll take me maybe between 4-6 seconds, never really sat down and counted how long it would take to calculate that, then I've already dealt 248 damage. 3 times? 372 damage. If you can pin them into a wall, you'll get 370 damage. If you can't, you'll get 185. Anybody support that I've ever laned with will tell you the damage is undeniable and it's not hard to get the hits off. I usually leave laning phase with 5 or more kills. I call it drastically superior because that's what it is. It's much much better. [/quote] It's not that easy. Every decent opponent will be aware of their positioning and won't be easily hit 3 times in a row. In early levels there's also quite a lot of minion damage coming your way if you decide to keep chasing your enemy cause you badly want those hits. There's also the enemy support who can either CC you ([[Alistar]]/[[Taric]]) or damage you ([[Sona]]/[[Janna]]) for quite a high amount of health early game. It's way too simple to assume you're gonna hit enemies three times in a row every 2-3 seconds. It's simply not true. I don't wanna say it's bad, but just as [[Condemn]] requires you to have good positioning or your enemy to have bad positioning (or both), [[Silver Bolts]] requires your enemies to be unable to counter using the same strategy every few seconds. [[Condemn]] only requires you to get in a good position once.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]"Every decent opponent will be aware of their positioning" Then how do you intend to nail them into a wall? :p Well, I can't convince you just with words. I will still have the 90 damage from the double nail (Condemn is the skill I choose to level last.) and then my bonus damage from Silver Bolts as well. I'm not saying that I will hit my enemies 2-3 times every 2-3 seconds and I never did say that I would. I'm just telling you guys, mathematically when we engage, over the course of a fight, I have MUCH more damage in my pocket than you do leveling condemn. It's not even comparable. Over a ten second fight -in lane phase- I might deal anywhere from 300-900 damage with Silver bolts depending on the HP of my target and how many times I can land the skill. Over a ten second fight, with maxed condemn, you can land a maximum of 370 and that's only if you nail them into the wall. I don't have to nail you, and if we're fighting, I'll be getting my attacks off. Again, stuns, supports, disables, etc, all of that is well and good, but I'm gonna land at least 6 consecutive shots in a fight, and if I can do that then the damage is already essentially equal. Anything after that is pure profit.[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100]lol that's why I said your enemies need to be badly positioned if you want to [[Condemn]] them (and of course your positioning should be pro as well) :P It's situational and not always easy to land, that's a fact. I get the idea of what you're saying but I personally don't find it very easy to hit enemies 3 times in a row often, so in a ten second fight you might get the third hit on them once, might be 3-4 times or even more, but it might also never happen. You do use AS runes however, right (or do I not remember correctly from the last time there was a discussion about this)? Btw how does levelling [[Silver Bolts]] affect your farm? Are you constantly looking to hit enemies three times in a row (thus losing out on some lasthits) or is that not a problem? *genuine interest*[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100][quote=DuffTime] You know... I might just try to fish out some replays and see if I have games recorded or something. I've explained it to you guys and you won't listen to obvious math. Maybe if you see the actual game play you'll understand. [/quote] Would like to see that :)[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]I occasionally miss a last hit in order to get my third attack off. My enemies in turn miss their last hits because they are busy pissing blood :P Or we can do some customs so that the players can feel the damage as well. There's a lot of ways that it can be done. Getting the three hits off is easy. I don't know what you're doing wrong >:P[/quote]

[quote=Wayne3100]Yup, must be me :| I've tried it before but it didn't work very well for me. Must admit that was during my earlier days as Vayne when I was happy with getting a 4/1/2 score though (considering how blatantly OP she was I really should've done better lol xD). You know what, I'll try it again :) Btw, AS runes right?[/quote]

[quote=omagma]Oh duff, your so stubborn and ignorant <3[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]10% AS is enough. I get it between my runes and masteries. I think I use 4 or 5 AS reds and get the rest in offensive masteries. The rest ArP.[/quote]