What do people think of my talon bad items...

[quote=Lugignaf]Just as a final note before I dip out of this bullshittery, you don't need a defensive item. You're an assassin with a blink/silence and a movespeed buff/stealth. If you get focused you're going to die anyway. Only defensive item I would get is [[Hexdrinker]] because it gives damage. It's not an endgame item though. EDIT: Just checked the item chapter. Gotta say, it looks good. Didn't check the item build though. Also, [[Shurelia's]] breaks stealth+the movespeed bonus that you're getting if you didn't know.[/quote]

[quote=RCIX][quote] Just as a final note before I dip out of this bullshittery, you don't need a defensive item. You're an assassin with a blink/silence and a movespeed buff/stealth. If you get focused you're going to die anyway. Only defensive item I would get is Hexdrinker because it gives damage. It's not an endgame item though. [/quote] I'll make sure to note that you should only be getting one defensive item, if that. However, I consider shurelya's offensive just because of how awesome the active is, and the fact that Philo works so well as a build in lane for sustain on him. [quote] EDIT: Just checked the item chapter. Gotta say, it looks good. Didn't check the item build though. Also, Shurelia's breaks stealth+the movespeed bonus that you're getting if you didn't know. [/quote] I should note shurelya's needs to be popped before ult, otherwise it will do that :P Also, thanks for the actual feedback, not "herp derp no ie and yes bt is stupid, im ignoring all the explanations and math you put up, and -1 for teh lulz trololol"[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]1) Ask without adding any link or pointing at your build. Otherwise it is subliminal self-promotion. And you DID know it. 2) Dont build Brutalizer at all, ofc flat ArP becomes pointless if you need LW, different matter thouh. 3) Mathcraft is lost on you. Just thinking that there's no better item than BT makes it already pointless. From your point of view I could stack AD on an AP caster, thus dealing more DPS thx to some long CDs and that would make it the better option. 4) You stated that you dont like picking ArP because it "provides less dmg output and won't help you lasthitting" sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... 5) So speccing into utility where you can make use of 2 skills (MS and CDR) makes it the better choice? ... ok. Dont use math without knowledge. Just hope this thread will be closed soon, since it is just another violation of the forum rules.[/quote]

[quote=RCIX][quote=Darcurse] 1) Ask without adding any link or pointing at your build. Otherwise it is subliminal self-promotion. And you DID know it. [/quote] So i'm supposed to let people fish out not only my guide, but the chapter I'm talking about in it? [quote=Darcurse] 2) Dont build Brutalizer at all, ofc flat ArP becomes pointless if you need LW, different matter thouh. [/quote] So wait, it's bad to not build arpen, but you don't like it when I DO build arpen? (Brutalizer is just fine when built but sold later) [quote=Darcurse] From your point of view I could stack AD on an AP caster, thus dealing more DPS thx to some long CDs and that would make it the better option. [/quote] Please, [i][b]actually read the math and explanation around it[/b][/i]. Infinity Edge is [i][b]WORSE[/b][/i] than bloodthirster in any case except a late-game full build, and at that point you're depending on one or more crits to deal more damage. We're talking about an assassin here, not an AD carry... Think man, think! [quote=Darcurse] 4) You stated that you dont like picking ArP because it "provides less dmg output and won't help you lasthitting" sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo... [/quote] Oh cool, you ignored the context. I said that I personally prefer AD runes because they make it easier to last hit early on. [b][i][u]I also said to pick whichever runes you want more.[/u][/i][/b] So sick of people going "herp derp cheat sheet isnt stock from top talon build, must suck *takes some lines out of context* yep, this guy is a total idiot". [quote=Darcurse] 5) So speccing into utility where you can make use of 2 skills (MS and CDR) makes it the better choice? ... ok. [/quote] In offense, he can use: [list] [*] [[brute force]] [*] [[deadliness]] [*] [[sunder]] [*] [[executioner]] [*] [[sorcery]] [/list] In utility, he can use: [list] [*] [[good hands]] [*] [[swiftness]] [*] [[runic affinity]] [*] [[greed]] [*] [[wealth]] [*] [[awareness]] [*] [[intelligence]] [*] [[mastermind]] [/list] Yeah, that's [i]totally[/i] only 2 masteries. I know, it was totally stupid of me not to be a metasheep and go 21/0/9 or 21/9/0, but I was really looking to shoot myself in the foot when getting feedback. /sarcasm [quote] Dont use math without knowledge. [/quote] Don't use posting without reading (or thinking). And also, yeah you're not supposed to advertise, but would it kill people to look at my guide a bit more when guides which are basically a cheat sheet and 2 walls of text get more votes and feedback?[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]People are downvoting it because they don't like it obviously. I wouldnt like it either just based on what I think about IE and how useful it is on 95% of AD carries. It gives amazing raw damage. Great crit benefits and overall makes your spike damage amazingly high. IF you have to auto attack you're better off with IE in your slot than without. Assuming Talon uses AAs when his other skills are on cool down you shoult take IE. You're an Assassin not a fighter, so build and play like one. A final note: Dont fucking ask for "what do people think" if you can't handle the answers.[/quote]

[quote=RCIX][quote=JEFFY40HANDS] I wouldnt like it either just based on what I think about IE and how useful it is on 95% of AD carries. [/quote] Round 3: [b]Talon is not an AD carry. Talon is an assassin.[/b] [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] IF you have to auto attack you're better off with IE in your slot than without. Assuming Talon uses AAs when his other skills are on cool down you shoult take IE. [/quote] Again, round 3: You shouldn't be sticking around to autoattack in 90% of cases. You should be bursting or running. [quote=JEFFY40HANDS]You're an Assassin not a fighter, so build and play like one. [/quote] You first :P [quote=JEFFY40HANDS] A final note: Dont fucking ask for "what do people think" if you can't handle the answers. [/quote] I listened to Khazem when he brought up suggestions to improve my guide. I listened to Luiginaf's notes. I can't do much with "herp derp no ie so build sucks" even though that's ignoring mathcraft and an explanation of why an IE isn't a good choice. I think this describes most of this thread fairly well (especially the post i just replied to and Darcurse's posts): [img]http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/15574266.jpg[/img][/quote]

[quote=Xenasis]I see no reason as to why IE would ever be good on Talon. Ever. Talon's purpose in life - To press E then kill a carry as fast as possible and deal (tonnes of) damage to other people. Hopefully escape, or clear up, afterwards. Crit is good when you have an extended period of time to attack. AD carries have it because they're constantly there chipping away at your health. You don't see a Talon standing there, auto attacking your carries to death, do you? No. He is adept at killing stuff fast. Everything in his kit has synergy with that (except his passive, but then, a lot of passives in this game don't make any sense ([[Determined Killer]])). In short - Talon wants to maximize his ability damage. His abilities scale off AD. IE - 4k. 80 AD. Crit stuff (which isn't relevant) BT - 3k. 60-100 AD. Lifesteal stuff (which isn't relevant) You gain 20 AD for every 1k gold in each. The big difference is, in a Bloodthirster, you can gain AD, to have a potential of 33 AD every 1k gold. Of course, that isn't up all the time, but you have a choice. 20 AD per 1k gold 20-33 AD per 1k gold Taking into account the fact that by the time you get these items, you only need to walk up to a minion wave and press W to stack it, I'm sure you can see which is the better choice.[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]Dude... right from your first post (2nd after the original ofc) you go "Hurr Durr, you guys know ****! Dont answer on my question"... - Dont buy Brutalizer if you wanna drop it. Not to mention that you're the one buying Shurelia's for MS/CDR on an assassin but think of Yomuu's as a bad item. - That's why I said math is lost on you. You're on of the guys that would actually buy AD on an AP caster since it increase their dmg output more than AP. [quote]"IMO AD quints are better since they increase ability damage AND make it easier to last hit though. "[/quote] Totally out of context. Yep, this guy is indeed a total idiot. - Utility mastery: Swiftness and Intelligence. The rest is 2nd rate quality. Btw: Nice one of you actually admitting the breach of rules after denying it. I like it. Describes your intentions fairly well.[/quote]

[quote=RCIX][quote=Darcurse] - Dont buy Brutalizer if you wanna drop it. Not to mention that you're the one buying Shurelia's for MS/CDR on an assassin but think of Yomuu's as a bad item. [/quote] Ok, please, rub a few brain cells together here. What are the main benefits of upgrading brutalizer to youmuu's? Crit (Talon doesn't care, see previous mathcrafting) and AS (this is even worse than crit). Now, thinking about it, would you pay ~1300 for: [list] [*]5 AD [*]5% CDR [*]5 Arpen [*]a few second 20% self MS steroid [/list] Versus, for ~600 more (1900 total after a few minutes worth of Philo gp5), the following: [list] [*]Health [*]Hp5 and Mp5 [*]10% more CDR [*]a [b]40% AoE[/b] MS steroid [/list] Also, Brutalizer is perfectly fine purchased early, much like a Hexdrinker. It's cheap, fairly cost efficient as a package, and a nice stepping-stone while you save for more expensive items. [quote=Darcurse] - That's why I said math is lost on you. You're on of the guys that would actually buy AD on an AP caster since it increase their dmg output more than AP. [/quote] A: Where did i say that? I'm arguing that IE is worse than BT because it's making an assassin autoattack more, so you must be [i]out of your mind[/i] to think that i'd [i]ever[/i] argue the opposite. B: I'd believe math isn't lost on you IF YOU ACTUALLY READ ANY OF MINE. C: If you don't understand what that quoted line means, i'd start wondering if you even have any brain cells to rub together... [quote=Darcurse] Btw: Nice one of you actually admitting the breach of rules after denying it. I like it. Describes your intentions fairly well. [/quote] I made a side note that it would be nice for more people to look at my guide since there are ones with virtually no content and worse formatting that get more feedback :X That's definitely, totally, equal to saying "guise com luk at mi gide its teh bawss!" :rolleyes: (that was sarcasm, noted so you don't go "herp derp LOOK HES BREAKING THE RULES PUNNNNISHHHH HIMMMM")[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]Dude, if you dont wanna listen to guys who haven't the same opinion as you do, DONT FU**ING ASK! As easy as that. Dont judge by what you get, judge by what you loose selling Brut. Not to mention that buying Philo on Talon etc is already bad. You dont seem to be able to understand so I dont blame you if you dont get that line. It's always the same with you bone-headed numbskulls. I saw your math, and yeah maybe it's correct (it seems that way), so what? Because your calcs are correct your idea becomes the perfect choice? Not rly. Calcs cant even cover half of what's necessary to evaluate ones build. You didnt(mostly can't) involve costs/ value of 2nd states/ different kind of scnearios etcetc. Like how you have to stack BT sometimes way more than once against decent teams. And so on. That's why I said that you're in a metaphorical way one of the guys who'd stack AD on someone like Brand etc. since it would increase his dmg early more than AP. And why? Because the calcs say so. And finally : [quote=RCIX]And also, yeah you're not supposed to advertise, but would it kill people to look at my guide a bit more when guides which are basically a cheat sheet and 2 walls of text get more votes and feedback?[/quote] I'll just leave that one as the answer. Totally drenched in sarcasm, no hint of being self-absorbed or sth alike. (btw:THAT was REAL sarcasm) Since you're only around to "spread your knowledge", I'll leave you alone for now, like the others already did. Only this thread should be closed, since it still is a violation of forum rules.[/quote]