7.4 Tier List + AMA

[quote=Khazem][quote=NicknameMy]I would say ADC [[Annie]] > ADC [[Ashe]]. You got more range, at least some form of defense and better cc. And [[urgot]], as we all know, is no ADC anyway. Also better than [[ashe]], ADC [[lulu]], lots of ways to outtrade your enemy in lane, great selfpeel and nice damage.[/quote] [spoiler=good god...][embed=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0][/spoiler][/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Khazem][quote=NicknameMy]I would say ADC [[Annie]] > ADC [[Ashe]]. You got more range, at least some form of defense and better cc. And [[urgot]], as we all know, is no ADC anyway. Also better than [[ashe]], ADC [[lulu]], lots of ways to outtrade your enemy in lane, great selfpeel and nice damage.[/quote] [spoiler=good god...][embed=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0][/spoiler][/quote] That. Is. The best thing I've ever watched. Thank you so much for sharing this with us Khazem, you are a saint.[/quote]

[quote=XeresAce]Nami technically loses lane to Karma assuming equal skill but this lane going slightly in to Karma's favor doesn't exactly affect nami (and her adc) too much so eh[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][[karma]]'s not going to be able to push [[nami]] out of lane. Sustain deals with poke extremely well[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]Well, last I checked, [[Karma]] could easily bully [[Nami]] out of lane (and I'm not the only one who considered her a counter to [[Nami]] either) and they've only proceeded to nerf [[Nami]] in ways that actually make it easier for [[Karma]].[/quote]

[quote=utopus]The range on [[ebb and flow]] is so high that is it quite easy for [[nami]] to poke karma without having to walk past her minion wave. Additionally, the high projectile speed makes it quite difficult for [[karma]] to [[inspire]] and have the shield 'cancel' the damage. If a [[karma]] is to bully a [[nami]] out of lane, i would believe that it is moreso because the ADC she is paired with may be a bigger bully compared to her opponents' adc.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard][quote=utopus]The range on [[ebb and flow]] is so high that is it quite easy for [[nami]] to poke karma without having to walk past her minion wave.[/quote][[Inner Flame]] has more range than [[Ebb and Flow]], not to mention it deals more damage at every rank with a lower CD and mana cost. Any competent [[Karma]] player is gonna be able to abuse that. To an extent, [[Nami]] has more consistency with [[Ebb and Flow]], but she's slower and squishier than [[Karma]] is, which means she's easier to hit to begin with and can't take as much damage either. I don't think the match-up has really changed much. [[Karma]] still has an advantage over [[Nami]] for similar reasons to why [[Vel'koz]] does, it's just that it's not as blatant.[/quote]

[quote=utopus][[ebb and flow]] can have a range of 1450, technically if you count the bounce :P I guess the important thing to reiterate is the fact that nami's spell is targeted, and it heals as well. Since the spell is targeted vs karma's skillshot [[inner flame]] it means that nami has more zone control over the creep wave. The melee minions will make it difficult for [[nami]] to get hit by [[inner flame]], whereas karma has more zone control over the brush area, because of the longer range of her Q, and because she does not need vision to damage champions in the brush on the other side. Karma's spell does slightly more damage yes, but it is important the heal factor is not overlooked. The heal that [[ebb and flow]] gives is really big, and helps with dueling a lot. However, I still think that karma's poking effectiveness greatly depends on the ADC that she is with. For instance, if [[karma]] is paired with a champion that can push quickly and is a lane bully ([[lucian]], [[tristana]] e.g.), then she can force her opposing laner under their turret. With the size of the lane decreasing, it becomes significantly easier for [[karma]] to poke champions.[/quote]

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]As I stated, I don't think the advantage is near as blatant as some other champions, but it's still there. The targeted nature of [[Ebb and Flow]] makes it more consistent than [[Inner Flame]] and it ofc, as a heal, can negate damage, but a properly used [[Mantra]]'d [[Inner Flame]] is gonna chunk [[Nami]] or her carry a lot harder than [[Nami]] can just ignore and that's also something that's been left out of this discussion. Not to mention that the consistency of [[Ebb and Flow]] still comes with a higher mana cost and cooldown (with gaps that only get wider) than [[Inner Flame]]'s. Since champions like [[Lucian]] and [[Tristana]] are still popular, it's not like it's too much to ask that someone actually play a champion who has synergy with what you're playing.[/quote]

[quote=Cooper112]Tris will fall off sooner or later she is only good atm because people cant close out game's in solo q. I always find games go quite long in NA especially compared to other region's solo q. Thats part of reason i never pick lee sin NA solo q since games go so late and usually lee is not great late.[/quote]