7.4 Tier List + AMA

[quote=OTGBionicArm]Fiora lahngz for ah worzy ahppownahnt.[/quote]

[quote=Pheyniex][quote=OTGBionicArm] Fiora lahngz for ah worzy ahppownahnt. [/quote] those hiccups. needs surprise butsex.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=NateDog13] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=H4xDefender] As far as scaling for the meta tops atm it goes Jax > Shyvana > Trundle > Lulu > Irelia > Renekton not sure where ryze is since nobody is really playing him top atm. Just finished overhauling everything... feel free to ask questions again about placements. After this recent update, I feel like this list is as accurate as its ever been. Feel free to disagree though, thats what this thread is all about. [b]To specific people:[/b] Gragas support is meh. it falls off really really hard if you dont get ahead and he is pretty easy to counterplay later on since he does no damage and his cc is weird yorick jungle is awful dont ever do it lol talon and rengar don't feel assassin nerfs as much because they kill fast. zed, ahri, and to a lesser extent fizz take more time to 100-0 squishies kha'zix is gonna need a lot of testing. jungle mains i talk to are conflicted on whether he'll still be ok, ill just play him and see, nerfs seem pretty bad on paper though. rengar is super overrated kayle is a retardedly powerful hero who should never have been created [/quote] I would put Ryze either before or after lulu, maybe even as far up as before trundle? He's got a wicked sick early game, and he doesnt really stop hurting in damage. His late game isn't as superb, but he can sure as hell wreck some carries while still holding quite a bit of beefiness. [/quote] wat. Ryze has always been one of the strongest late-game carries, his problem when he was played mid lane was his weak early game as he lost lane to all the popular champs. After his last buff people discovered Ryze top lane where he's actually a very strong laner too. The fact that he's become a strong laner doesn't mean his late game isn't still retardedly good, it's the best part about the champion. A lot of people are crying for nerfs, and they're not wrong to do so. A late-game hypercarry shouldn't counter everyone in his lane. [/quote] I'm a bit lost on where your "wat" is coming from, Ryze compared to Jax and Shyvana doesn't make as large of an impact overall late game, and his scaling, while able to go toe to toe with them, definitely isn't above them. I think I gave him a pretty fair guestimation range of placement. Placing Ryze at the #1 spot above Jax would be absolutely insane, and I'd argue that even #2 or #3 would be a hard spot for him to hold. [/quote] Because you said his late-game "isn't as superb" as his laning phase, which is ridiculous. And I would argue Jax is the only top laner who outscales Ryze. [/quote] .... Are we talking about the same game? I feel like I've missed something. If we go based on full builds and max level to "test" scaling, I can guarantee you that Ryze is going to lose to Jax, Shyvana in most scenarios,and Trundle in most scenarios. The other matchups would be a tossup, but by god it sounds like you're making Ryze out to be the best top laner there is when he barely gets picked/played and really only for countering Renekton top or going for a comfort pick. The top laners before him are basically the best and most viable duelists in the game right now currently, and to hear that Ryze outscales them is a bit farfetched. His late game isn't superb, if it was then you'd see Ryze's single handedly carrying games, and all I've heard pro players say is "Ryze is really hard to carry with top lane, Shyvana, Jax, and Irelia are the go-to carries." and even then they say Irelia is on the lower end of them and you can usually pick up Shyvana or Jax, so idk man, higher level play/players disagrees with him having a "superb" late game, he's strong dont get me wrong, but not good enough to call superb. [/quote] Ryze's late-game is [b]insane[/b]. Think of him as a ranged AP Jax. His damage items are also tanky items, and by the time he's full build he has an insane combination of HP, resistances, and mana, which for him is damage. As well as 40% CDR. He's hard to focus down because of the fact that he's ranged, and he's a tank with damage comparable to an ADC. Full build Ryze can 1v1 full build Trundle and full build Shyvana. I'm not sure about Jax, but I wouldn't be too surprised if he could. If you think Ryze's late game isn't "superb", you clearly haven't played much Ryze.[/quote]

[quote=Vapora Dark][quote=I want to be a Blitzball] Vapora you forgot [[Riven]] :( [/quote] I don't know about [[riven]], I haven't seen her too much recently.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender]Ryze's lategame is worse than Trundle, Shyv, and Jax, and better than lulu. Its good of course, but its overrated by a lot of people. I couldn't exactly pinpoint where to put him since I was updating at like 3 a.m. and I'd been up for like 20 hours @.@ Added pantheon top. Accidentally had 2 teemos. AD teemo is garbage. I have no idea where to put poppy, dont even think shes really viable fiora jungle ... ........... added it anyway.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=H4xDefender] As far as scaling for the meta tops atm it goes Jax > Shyvana > Trundle > Lulu > Irelia > Renekton not sure where ryze is since nobody is really playing him top atm. Just finished overhauling everything... feel free to ask questions again about placements. After this recent update, I feel like this list is as accurate as its ever been. Feel free to disagree though, thats what this thread is all about. [b]To specific people:[/b] Gragas support is meh. it falls off really really hard if you dont get ahead and he is pretty easy to counterplay later on since he does no damage and his cc is weird yorick jungle is awful dont ever do it lol talon and rengar don't feel assassin nerfs as much because they kill fast. zed, ahri, and to a lesser extent fizz take more time to 100-0 squishies kha'zix is gonna need a lot of testing. jungle mains i talk to are conflicted on whether he'll still be ok, ill just play him and see, nerfs seem pretty bad on paper though. rengar is super overrated kayle is a retardedly powerful hero who should never have been created [/quote] I would put Ryze either before or after lulu, maybe even as far up as before trundle? He's got a wicked sick early game, and he doesnt really stop hurting in damage. His late game isn't as superb, but he can sure as hell wreck some carries while still holding quite a bit of beefiness. [/quote] wat. Ryze has always been one of the strongest late-game carries, his problem when he was played mid lane was his weak early game as he lost lane to all the popular champs. After his last buff people discovered Ryze top lane where he's actually a very strong laner too. The fact that he's become a strong laner doesn't mean his late game isn't still retardedly good, it's the best part about the champion. A lot of people are crying for nerfs, and they're not wrong to do so. A late-game hypercarry shouldn't counter everyone in his lane. [/quote] I'm a bit lost on where your "wat" is coming from, Ryze compared to Jax and Shyvana doesn't make as large of an impact overall late game, and his scaling, while able to go toe to toe with them, definitely isn't above them. I think I gave him a pretty fair guestimation range of placement. Placing Ryze at the #1 spot above Jax would be absolutely insane, and I'd argue that even #2 or #3 would be a hard spot for him to hold. [/quote] Because you said his late-game "isn't as superb" as his laning phase, which is ridiculous. And I would argue Jax is the only top laner who outscales Ryze. [/quote] .... Are we talking about the same game? I feel like I've missed something. If we go based on full builds and max level to "test" scaling, I can guarantee you that Ryze is going to lose to Jax, Shyvana in most scenarios,and Trundle in most scenarios. The other matchups would be a tossup, but by god it sounds like you're making Ryze out to be the best top laner there is when he barely gets picked/played and really only for countering Renekton top or going for a comfort pick. The top laners before him are basically the best and most viable duelists in the game right now currently, and to hear that Ryze outscales them is a bit farfetched. His late game isn't superb, if it was then you'd see Ryze's single handedly carrying games, and all I've heard pro players say is "Ryze is really hard to carry with top lane, Shyvana, Jax, and Irelia are the go-to carries." and even then they say Irelia is on the lower end of them and you can usually pick up Shyvana or Jax, so idk man, higher level play/players disagrees with him having a "superb" late game, he's strong dont get me wrong, but not good enough to call superb. [/quote] Ryze's late-game is [b]insane[/b]. Think of him as a ranged AP Jax. His damage items are also tanky items, and by the time he's full build he has an insane combination of HP, resistances, and mana, which for him is damage. As well as 40% CDR. He's hard to focus down because of the fact that he's ranged, and he's a tank with damage comparable to an ADC. Full build Ryze can 1v1 full build Trundle and full build Shyvana. I'm not sure about Jax, but I wouldn't be too surprised if he could. If you think Ryze's late game isn't "superb", you clearly haven't played much Ryze. [/quote] Ryze's tankiness eventually falls off, which is a big problem. Ryze is obviously strong late-game but his teamfight presence just isn't as big as Shyv's or Jax'. Ryze fulfills a different role and that role isn't 100% supported by the current meta. On top of that, his laning phase and mid-game aren't as impactful as any of the aforementioned bruisers.[/quote]

[quote=H4xDefender][quote=GrandmasterD] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=H4xDefender] As far as scaling for the meta tops atm it goes Jax > Shyvana > Trundle > Lulu > Irelia > Renekton not sure where ryze is since nobody is really playing him top atm. Just finished overhauling everything... feel free to ask questions again about placements. After this recent update, I feel like this list is as accurate as its ever been. Feel free to disagree though, thats what this thread is all about. [b]To specific people:[/b] Gragas support is meh. it falls off really really hard if you dont get ahead and he is pretty easy to counterplay later on since he does no damage and his cc is weird yorick jungle is awful dont ever do it lol talon and rengar don't feel assassin nerfs as much because they kill fast. zed, ahri, and to a lesser extent fizz take more time to 100-0 squishies kha'zix is gonna need a lot of testing. jungle mains i talk to are conflicted on whether he'll still be ok, ill just play him and see, nerfs seem pretty bad on paper though. rengar is super overrated kayle is a retardedly powerful hero who should never have been created [/quote] I would put Ryze either before or after lulu, maybe even as far up as before trundle? He's got a wicked sick early game, and he doesnt really stop hurting in damage. His late game isn't as superb, but he can sure as hell wreck some carries while still holding quite a bit of beefiness. [/quote] wat. Ryze has always been one of the strongest late-game carries, his problem when he was played mid lane was his weak early game as he lost lane to all the popular champs. After his last buff people discovered Ryze top lane where he's actually a very strong laner too. The fact that he's become a strong laner doesn't mean his late game isn't still retardedly good, it's the best part about the champion. A lot of people are crying for nerfs, and they're not wrong to do so. A late-game hypercarry shouldn't counter everyone in his lane. [/quote] I'm a bit lost on where your "wat" is coming from, Ryze compared to Jax and Shyvana doesn't make as large of an impact overall late game, and his scaling, while able to go toe to toe with them, definitely isn't above them. I think I gave him a pretty fair guestimation range of placement. Placing Ryze at the #1 spot above Jax would be absolutely insane, and I'd argue that even #2 or #3 would be a hard spot for him to hold. [/quote] Because you said his late-game "isn't as superb" as his laning phase, which is ridiculous. And I would argue Jax is the only top laner who outscales Ryze. [/quote] .... Are we talking about the same game? I feel like I've missed something. If we go based on full builds and max level to "test" scaling, I can guarantee you that Ryze is going to lose to Jax, Shyvana in most scenarios,and Trundle in most scenarios. The other matchups would be a tossup, but by god it sounds like you're making Ryze out to be the best top laner there is when he barely gets picked/played and really only for countering Renekton top or going for a comfort pick. The top laners before him are basically the best and most viable duelists in the game right now currently, and to hear that Ryze outscales them is a bit farfetched. His late game isn't superb, if it was then you'd see Ryze's single handedly carrying games, and all I've heard pro players say is "Ryze is really hard to carry with top lane, Shyvana, Jax, and Irelia are the go-to carries." and even then they say Irelia is on the lower end of them and you can usually pick up Shyvana or Jax, so idk man, higher level play/players disagrees with him having a "superb" late game, he's strong dont get me wrong, but not good enough to call superb. [/quote] Ryze's late-game is [b]insane[/b]. Think of him as a ranged AP Jax. His damage items are also tanky items, and by the time he's full build he has an insane combination of HP, resistances, and mana, which for him is damage. As well as 40% CDR. He's hard to focus down because of the fact that he's ranged, and he's a tank with damage comparable to an ADC. Full build Ryze can 1v1 full build Trundle and full build Shyvana. I'm not sure about Jax, but I wouldn't be too surprised if he could. If you think Ryze's late game isn't "superb", you clearly haven't played much Ryze. [/quote] Ryze's tankiness eventually falls off, which is a big problem. Ryze is obviously strong late-game but his teamfight presence just isn't as big as Shyv's or Jax'. Ryze fulfills a different role and that role isn't 100% supported by the current meta. On top of that, his laning phase and mid-game aren't as impactful as any of the aforementioned bruisers. [/quote] pretty much. I don't think he was arguing that ryze should be higher though, he definitely has a multitude of problems. Lategame isn't really one of them, he just isnt jax/shyv/trundle level lategame.[/quote]

[quote=SOAC Bas][quote=H4xDefender] AD teemo is garbage. [/quote] honestly so is ap teemo right now. Not enough damage too squishy no realistic escape. The only decent viable teemo now is tank teemo with on-hit effects something down the lines of Botrk/Wit's End/Mallet/Liandry's/Banshee's or Randuin's. That nerf they gave him was way way too much. He is borderline unplayable as every single champ that has a decent top lane outscales him quickly. You might be able to beat a warwick.[/quote]

[quote=NateDog13][quote=H4xDefender] Ryze's lategame is worse than Trundle, Shyv, and Jax, and better than lulu. Its good of course, but its overrated by a lot of people. I couldn't exactly pinpoint where to put him since I was updating at like 3 a.m. and I'd been up for like 20 hours @.@ Added pantheon top. Accidentally had 2 teemos. AD teemo is garbage. I have no idea where to put poppy, dont even think shes really viable fiora jungle ... ........... added it anyway. [/quote] Poppy is low tier 2 top, idk about her jungle, but she's still amazing in the right hands, she's just like Fiora imo. [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=Vapora Dark] [quote=NateDog13] [quote=H4xDefender] As far as scaling for the meta tops atm it goes Jax > Shyvana > Trundle > Lulu > Irelia > Renekton not sure where ryze is since nobody is really playing him top atm. Just finished overhauling everything... feel free to ask questions again about placements. After this recent update, I feel like this list is as accurate as its ever been. Feel free to disagree though, thats what this thread is all about. [b]To specific people:[/b] Gragas support is meh. it falls off really really hard if you dont get ahead and he is pretty easy to counterplay later on since he does no damage and his cc is weird yorick jungle is awful dont ever do it lol talon and rengar don't feel assassin nerfs as much because they kill fast. zed, ahri, and to a lesser extent fizz take more time to 100-0 squishies kha'zix is gonna need a lot of testing. jungle mains i talk to are conflicted on whether he'll still be ok, ill just play him and see, nerfs seem pretty bad on paper though. rengar is super overrated kayle is a retardedly powerful hero who should never have been created [/quote] I would put Ryze either before or after lulu, maybe even as far up as before trundle? He's got a wicked sick early game, and he doesnt really stop hurting in damage. His late game isn't as superb, but he can sure as hell wreck some carries while still holding quite a bit of beefiness. [/quote] wat. Ryze has always been one of the strongest late-game carries, his problem when he was played mid lane was his weak early game as he lost lane to all the popular champs. After his last buff people discovered Ryze top lane where he's actually a very strong laner too. The fact that he's become a strong laner doesn't mean his late game isn't still retardedly good, it's the best part about the champion. A lot of people are crying for nerfs, and they're not wrong to do so. A late-game hypercarry shouldn't counter everyone in his lane. [/quote] I'm a bit lost on where your "wat" is coming from, Ryze compared to Jax and Shyvana doesn't make as large of an impact overall late game, and his scaling, while able to go toe to toe with them, definitely isn't above them. I think I gave him a pretty fair guestimation range of placement. Placing Ryze at the #1 spot above Jax would be absolutely insane, and I'd argue that even #2 or #3 would be a hard spot for him to hold. [/quote] Because you said his late-game "isn't as superb" as his laning phase, which is ridiculous. And I would argue Jax is the only top laner who outscales Ryze. [/quote] .... Are we talking about the same game? I feel like I've missed something. If we go based on full builds and max level to "test" scaling, I can guarantee you that Ryze is going to lose to Jax, Shyvana in most scenarios,and Trundle in most scenarios. The other matchups would be a tossup, but by god it sounds like you're making Ryze out to be the best top laner there is when he barely gets picked/played and really only for countering Renekton top or going for a comfort pick. The top laners before him are basically the best and most viable duelists in the game right now currently, and to hear that Ryze outscales them is a bit farfetched. His late game isn't superb, if it was then you'd see Ryze's single handedly carrying games, and all I've heard pro players say is "Ryze is really hard to carry with top lane, Shyvana, Jax, and Irelia are the go-to carries." and even then they say Irelia is on the lower end of them and you can usually pick up Shyvana or Jax, so idk man, higher level play/players disagrees with him having a "superb" late game, he's strong dont get me wrong, but not good enough to call superb. [/quote] Ryze's late-game is [b]insane[/b]. Think of him as a ranged AP Jax. His damage items are also tanky items, and by the time he's full build he has an insane combination of HP, resistances, and mana, which for him is damage. As well as 40% CDR. He's hard to focus down because of the fact that he's ranged, and he's a tank with damage comparable to an ADC. Full build Ryze can 1v1 full build Trundle and full build Shyvana. I'm not sure about Jax, but I wouldn't be too surprised if he could. If you think Ryze's late game isn't "superb", you clearly haven't played much Ryze. [/quote] H4x and GMD pretty much covered it, if I can't convince you about him at this point then I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.[/quote]

[quote=AVryHandsomeLady]Could you expand on Nami rising in the support tier list? Been starting to play her and absolutely love her, so I'm happy to see her. Just curious as to what makes her better than some other supports right now.[/quote]