A Flash Free Season Three!

[quote=Vapora Dark]Yes yes yes, 100x yes. Flash is detrimental to the game, and I'd rather take other summoner spells than it, but I just feel I HAVE to take it each game because it's hard to compete with an enemy team which all takes [[flash]] if I don't have [[flash]] myself, whether it be for chasing or escaping. I play [[warwick]], and I would be willing to give up the [[flash]] + [[infinite duress]] combo. I play [[talon]] with whom I constantly have to deal with enemies keeping half a lane's worth of distance from me to keep me from killing them, and I would be willing to give up the [[flash]] + [[cutthroat]] combo. I occasionally play [[amumu]] and I would be willing to give up the [[flash]] + [[curse of the sad mummy]] combo. Flash isn't core to any champion, you only take it because everybody else takes it and you can't properly chase or escape someone with [[flash]] if you don't have it yourself most of the time. Removing it from the game, also removes the necessity of needing it in the first place. To the argument of needing it when you're out of position: Learn to have good positioning. To the argument of needing it to escape ganks: Learn to ward. How many of you actually ward mid? Very few I bet. ( Most of the lower Elo / normal game players probably won't, anyway ) I never used to, and I was able to survive ganks anyway just because I had [[flash]] up, when really I should have been punished for my mistake. To the argument of getting away from [[jax]] or [[irelia]] without [[flash]]: Do [[Irelia]] and [[jax]] REALLY only attack you once every 5 minutes? [[Flash]] would only save you from them once and anyway, that's not any kind of argument. Remember that they have [[flash]] too, and if you flash away from them, they can easily flash back at you. To the argument of needing it for a good ult on, for example, Sona: It's hard, yes, but not impossible to land a good ult on people without it. All [[flash]] does is make an extremely rewarding and powerful maneouvre, extremely easy to do, rather than skilful. I remember once I was single-handedly winning a ranked game with [[tristana]], and when we were defending our mid inhibitor tower like 50 minutes in, their [[Alistar]] flashed through the wall right on me, immediately [[Pulverize]]d me before I could react, then [[headbutt]]ed me through the wall onto the enemy team where I got hit by more CC and died. From the instant he flashed onto me I was CC'd and had no control over what happened to me, and we lost the game because I was the only reason we were able to hold our tower. You're meant to be able to carry any game if you're skilled enough, but that was completely undefendable. What could I have possibly done in that situation to counter Ali's manoeuvre? I shouldn't have lost that game. But I did, because you can't possibly react fast enough to a [[flash]] + [[pulverize]] combo, because it is INSTANT. Single-handedly carrying a team takes a lot of effort, and requires you to be by far the best player in the game. But that can be countered by the click of 2 or 3 buttons thanks to flash. It doesn't even require any skill to do it, just the knowledge that the champion you're playing CAN perform such a maneouvre. Good [[Sona]] and [[amumu]] ults shouldn't be so impossible to defend from, because they can instantly win you the game if you hit all 5 enemies with them. WHICH ISN'T HARD AT ALL WITH FLASH. Also, putting flash into an item wouldn't make that item insta-buy on every champion. It would be like [[quicksilver sash]]. You'd maybe get it on an AD carry, in games where you feel like you need it, but most of the time [[guardian angel]] does a better job. And it wouldn't be switchable with any of the standard AD carry items because they're all necessary for their damage out-put. And champions with gap closers such as [[ezreal]] or [[corki]] are ALREADY dominant, taking [[flash]] away wouldn't make them any better, or any worse. For example: [[Corki]] escaping or chasing from, let's say, a pre-6 [[shyvana]], as an example of a champ with no gap closer. With Flash: Shyvana is directly behind Corki in auto-attack range, so Corki flashes away. Shyvana flashes after him, and he uses [[valkyrie]] to put further distance between them. At this point, Corkie is as far away from Shyvana as Valkyrie's range allows him to be. Now, let's say NEITHER of them have flash: Same scenario, Shyvana behind Corki in auto-attack range. Corki uses Valkyrie to escape, and in this scenario, he's STILL as far away from Shyvana as [[Valkyrie]]'s range allows him to be. He isn't any better or worse in either scenario. He has a gap closer built into his kit, and that makes him "better" than any champion that doesn't have a gap closer, WITH OR WITHOUT FLASH. The same scenario applies to [[ezreal]], [[leblanc]], [[ahri]], and whoever else was mentioned. Removing [[flash]] from the game doesn't make them any more dominant than they already are, because they ALSO benefit from [[flash]], as WELL as their gap closers / escape mechanisms. They would STILL have an advantage in terms of chasing power and escaping than anyone who doesn't have one. @GMD, I won't be trying to play all my games without [[flash]] because, as I already said before, I find I NEED to take it to compete with other champions if they take flash, which I have to assume they will. I'll try and do my part by playing a lotta [[Olaf]] though, seeing as I never play him with [[flash]] anyway. :) I completely agree that it should be removed as a summoner spell though, because it ruins good plays, it makes some powerful plays MUCH easier to make than they should be, and saves players after they make what [i]should[/i] have been fatal mistakes. If I accidentally [[quickdraw]] too close to their team as [[graves]], why should I be able to correct my dumbass mistake by [[flash]]ing away. >:([/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]^ Tl;dr. :P You don't understand how removing Flash would gut the meta and radically shift the balance of power on almost every champion. It would fundamentally change the way the game is played forever. Imo Flash makes the game more exciting to watch and allows you to make plays and take risks. Many champions (or even entire roles) rely on it to be viable. It isn't going anywhere. And for fucks sake will people stop using the 'learn to ward' or 'learn to position' argument. It's dumb.[/quote]

[quote=IAmByakuya]Taking flash isnt a so bad idea, if im not jungling as shyvana i prefer taking ghost as her high speed/burnout just lets her reach most champs and if i want to escape through walls, low cd ulti lets me get away safe[/quote]

[quote=bsurma][quote=Luther3000] Tl;dr. You don't understand how removing Flash would gut the meta and radically shift the balance of power on almost every champion. It would fundamentally change the way the game is played forever. Imo Flash makes the game more exciting to watch and allows you to make plays and take risks. Many champions (or even entire roles) rely on it to be viable. And for fucks sake will people stop using the 'learn to ward' or 'learn to position' argument. It's dumb. [/quote] ^ This. This x20. Removing [[flash]] is a little bit like removing a certain animal from a food chain. Not so drastic, but still it would change A LOT of things.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][img=http://euw.leagueoflegends.com/board/attachment.php?attachmentid=45893&d=1312479605] Relevant pictorial resource.[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]Simply kill the one side most serious gamers hate about Flash: The "Get-out-of-Jail"-card. A short CD (~0.5-1 sec) after getting hit by a direct dmg source (excluding DoTs etc) maybe with a dimishing return not to deny flashing for an unlimited time regarding autohits. The same as stealth before rework.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Luther3000] ^ Tl;dr. :P You don't understand how removing Flash would gut the meta and radically shift the balance of power on almost every champion. It would fundamentally change the way the game is played forever. Imo Flash makes the game more exciting to watch and allows you to make plays and take risks. Many champions (or even entire roles) rely on it to be viable. It isn't going anywhere. And for fucks sake will people stop using the 'learn to ward' or 'learn to position' argument. It's dumb. [/quote] I understand your point and yes, of course it would change the game forever. The game itself would suddenly turn into more unforgiving playstyle but that isn't necessarily a bad thing. The 'learn to ward' and 'learn to position' arguments are getting old and aren't the whole part of the story but are quite important. Just as some players dodged to extremely low elo values in order to prove elo hell doesn't exist, I want to prove people do not need to have [[Flash]] in order to play well. To me [[Flash]] is simply a failsafe in case you do something stupid; that can be a positioning fail or a missed gap-closer (e.g. [[Bandage Toss]]). If you look at [[Flash]] that way it is simply promoting bad play. It's like handing out "out of jail freecards" in case you have to go to prison because you committed a crime; it promotes bad behaviour. Now I'm well aware of the fact that you can make good plays with [[Flash]] but aren't plays way better when they are done with the skills of the champ themselves? How often have we seen impressive videos of [[Lee Sin]] players ward-jumping their way to safety? Those are impressive. The videos where we see someone [[Flash]] over a wall aren't spectacular because everyone at level 12 can do that. [rule] In the end it may seem that [[Flash]] promotes aggressive play but it doesn't. It promotes stupid bravery. Charging into armies when you are clearly outnumbered isn't brave, it's dumb! [[Flash]] promotes this kind of stuff since you can just reset it all in the [[Blink Of An Eye]].[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]I [[scout]] what you did there[/quote]

[quote=Mowen]Not gonna read 9 pages but... I would like it if they made it so Flash was put on cooldown for a few seconds after being hit by a champion (auto or spell) or tower. This would make it so people can't just flash away with the last bit of health after being successfully ganked or realizing they can't win a trade they went into. However, they can still use Flash offensively or if they see something coming and plan for it, giving a little more skill involved to escape with Flash. I would also be happy if they took it out and made an item (or a few that have ad/ap/health + a blink active) but I would still like them to not be able to use it for a few seconds if they've been hit by a champ or tower. Pretty much like Blink Dagger from DotA. :) I like that design a lot better than Flash. Not gonna say I'll never play with Flash at the moment though. ;P[/quote]

[quote=Psychofrench]Putting it on a cooldown, they would have to rename it.[/quote]