CURSE vs. SK Game Discussion

[quote=ClearDays][quote=DuffTime] I'm going to chase her, and Q her, all the way to her tower if I have to. I'm going to come out on top of the trades. [/quote] Gangplank beats Riven. End of story. GP can poke. GP wins AA war with passive and E. GP can escape stuns. GP doesnt accidentally push the lane while trying to harass. If Riven loses a fight and wants to run from an AA fight, then GP can slow and Q to death If you want to go overboard, by a wriggles, and Riven is done for. All Riven can do is hope to come even on trades and burn out GP mana, as well as receive ganks. Besides, even if it is a farmfest GP wins. Q grants more gold on kill.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]I'm legitimately surprised and confused that it isn't common knowledge that GP wins, but I appreciate the support xP[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]I've never said that Riven wins the lane against GP, I'm just saying I think it's a much closer matchup than you seem to believe. It's not an autowin lane if you pick GP by any stretch. Or at least it was last patch, I have no idea how Riven is now.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]No you have to play well. Riven is a dangerous champion, she needs to be taken seriously by any champion. It's not like Panth vrs GP where you just trade spears and eventually Pantheon wins because of passive and there's shit you can do about it. You have to know how to play GP, but the best GP will always beat the best Riven, the mechanics support GP more than they support Riven.[/quote]

[quote=Zell]Duff, its pretty common for Riven to build Brutalizer so full armor pages isn't [b][i]that[/i][/b] effective. Also, its not like not having any Magic Resistant runes won't have any ramifications later on especially if you have to play the bruiser role for your team. It just sounds like you've been against too many Doran's Blade stacking Riven players by the looks of it. Gangplank has the upper-hand against Riven but is by no means a direct counter, this upper hand slowly deteriorates as time progress I've found.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]Have you ever been against a Gangplank who buy Ninja Tabi and Wriggles? Or a chain vest and 2-3 doran's blades into an Atma's? Please understand, if you're going to use gear or junglers as your argument, that does in fact go BOTH ways. The irony is, because GP's passive is in fact magic damage, if we both build 200 armor, GP eventually wins. If we want to talk about Brutalizer, that's great. Can you tell me how much that item costs please, and how much armor pen you'll get out of it? 1337 you say? 15 armor pen? Interesting, I could have sworn that a 300 gold item will give me that much armor. You do realize that if I simply buy 2 doran's blades and ONE cloth armor, my cost to effect is drastically superior to yours? I will entirely negate your armor pen, get 5 less AD, life steal, and health. My setof items is cheaper, to boot, and better for lane phase. I think the real issue here, is that you assume I don't know what I'm talking about Zell, and you underestimate my knowledge of counter building. I would be glad if Riven buys a Brutalizer. If I wanted to, I could even buy a Chain vest and a vamp scepter and take the tanky "Long haul" route where I gradually win a war of attrition over a longer lane phase. GP has far more options than Riven, and has the far more flexible kit as a whole. If we want to start talking about gear, we start to realize that Riven is actually fucked on more levels than we'd previously imagined.[/quote]

[quote=Zell][quote=DuffTime] Have you ever been against a Gangplank who buy Ninja Tabi and Wriggles?[/quote] Yeah, its pretty common. [quote=DuffTime]Or a chain vest and 2-3 doran's blades into an Atma's?[/quote] Actually I haven't. [quote=DuffTime]Please understand, if you're going to use gear or [b]junglers[/b] as your argument, that does in fact go BOTH ways.[/quote] Don't actually remember mentioning junglers but okay yeah obviously things will work both way. [quote=DuffTime]I think the real issue here, is that [b]you assume I don't know what I'm talking about[/b] Zell[/quote] Ummm.. think your being a tad paranoid, no? o0 [quote=DuffTime]If I wanted to, I could even buy a Chain vest and a vamp scepter and take the tanky "Long haul" route where I gradually win a war of attrition over a longer lane phase.[/quote] Thing about this though I think you over-estimate Gangplank mana efficiency over a long period of time, these oranges don't come from trees. A slight note that Riven can force engages and land a stun if timed properly (forcing orange earlier) if the Gangplank doesn't back off. [quote=DuffTime]GP has far more options than Riven, and has the far more flexible kit as a whole.[/quote] Not doubting that, although team composition can restrict it a bit at times. Not denying that items or item builds can't be countered (okay maybe some but that's irrelevant to this discussion itself), point being that in the bigger picture (% wise) most players won't.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]No the point is not whether the average player will be able to beat Riven with GP or know or understand item counters, the point is which kit will win. Only good players can really show you which kit will win in match ups of champions, bad players squander the important subtle details :P If gear counters exist for riven, but Riven has no way to counter the gear GP builds, she's in trouble. She has to rush Last whisper if GP builds armor, and that's not good for her. I'm not being paranoid, you implied I've never seen a Riven build anything but Doran's blades. I replied with a similar insinuation. I don't over estimate it. That's why my standard GP page is fat mana regen blues and in my masteries I take the flat mana regen. In this way, my one weakness in that lane (Mana) is not a weakness. If I see the jungler, hell, I'll even use oranges just to heal once I have a point or two in the skill. Team composition. GP's kit is more flexible and team oriented that Riven's is. He has more AoE buffs and his ultimate is always good. If you continue to try to point out areas where Riven has the upper hand, I will continue making counter points. She really doesn't have any upper hand. She's a decent champion but she does lose to GP.[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=Zell]forcing orange [/quote] GP should never orange riven stun, you melee her when she gets close, and parrley when she stuns.[/quote]

[quote=Zell]Oh right, well I was just under the impression that it was in an "average" so to speak circumstance. Gangplank will without a doubt at the highest level of a play beat Riven without the influential of the junglers playing a distinct part especially by building up on the momentum gained at the early levels as you've emphasised with level 1 fights throughout the thread. ;-) About the Doran's Blade comment I just said too many, I didn't intend to mean it in that way nor cause any offense.[/quote]