Some thoughts about Season 3?

[quote=Andarun][quote=OTGBionicArm] [quote=Andarun] Well, no more jungle [[Jayce]] for me, and it sounds like [[Nautilus]] will get his ass whipped in S3. I am kind of excited for the new mastery changes, it's kinda boring going 9/21/0 all the time. [/quote] People forget that [[Nautilus]] is actually a decent top laner. :p Maybe try playing him there? :D And yea, Defense tree too stronk. [/quote] I did. Any duelist will just murder you, and some champs can just break your shield in seconds. Examples of duelists that break your shield in seconds: [[Olaf]], [[Lee Sin]], every popular top laner ever. Yes, that includes [[Malphite]].[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]I used to play Top-Naut all the time, didn't really have a problem against most foes, but you generally freeze lane and keep your distance. And obviously [[Nautilus]] responds very well to ganks.[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=wRAthoFVuLK] No, Nautilus will still be good in s3 jungle. The new jungle, if it works as predicted, will allow ALL kinds of junglers to be successful, which is the goal of the rework. Season 1, you had to play tanky champs with good damage so you can go through camps without dying. Season 2, camps give shit gold, so you basically play junglers that don't rely on gold to do work -- people that are innately tanky and are never useless because they have cc (mao's root, ult, and slow never become useless even if he is level 6 when everyone is level 12; same with Naut, Skarner, Malphite, Shen, even Rammus, etc.); they can just build gold items and a cheap support build and not have to worry about jungling much except to get buffs and during downtime. Junglers that require a lot of gold to be really strong and are kind of lackluster in early ganks simply don't do well in the current state. They don't get the gold they need from staying in the jungle, so they fall off quickly, and they are useless without that gold -- they don't have potent ganks like the previously mentioned junglers. Such ones are Warwick, Lee Sin (for the most part, though a bit less), Shyvana (same domain as Lee), Pantheon, Shaco, Twitch, Trundle, and untraditional junglers like Fiora, Riven, Volibear, Tryn, Master Yi, Jayce, Gangplank, Jax, etc. If they don't get some really great ganks off, they are useless for the rest of the game. What this jungle change will do is ultimately bring up the latter class of junglers, since now they can opt to just jungle and actually make decent income, and not have to take a coin flip on whether or not the enemy will allow them to get off good ganks this game, as well as once again promote counter jungling, and yet keep the support tanky junglers in meta. Just because there is more gold in the jungle to get doesn't mean you can't still play the gank-heavy junglers. It keeps them where they are at but brings the other class back up to an even playing field with them, and it boils down to mostly preference and what the team needs. However, as I said in my earlier post, the junglers I have a feeling that will dominate the season 3 jungle are those that can clear quickly, so they can get a lot of that extra jungle gold, yet still gank reasonably well. [/quote] Stonewall played nautilus on the super secret S3 PBE, and he says nautilus straight up dies in the S3 jungle.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=wRAthoFVuLK] No, Nautilus will still be good in s3 jungle. The new jungle, if it works as predicted, will allow ALL kinds of junglers to be successful, which is the goal of the rework. Season 1, you had to play tanky champs with good damage so you can go through camps without dying. Season 2, camps give shit gold, so you basically play junglers that don't rely on gold to do work -- people that are innately tanky and are never useless because they have cc (mao's root, ult, and slow never become useless even if he is level 6 when everyone is level 12; same with Naut, Skarner, Malphite, Shen, even Rammus, etc.); they can just build gold items and a cheap support build and not have to worry about jungling much except to get buffs and during downtime. Junglers that require a lot of gold to be really strong and are kind of lackluster in early ganks simply don't do well in the current state. They don't get the gold they need from staying in the jungle, so they fall off quickly, and they are useless without that gold -- they don't have potent ganks like the previously mentioned junglers. Such ones are Warwick, Lee Sin (for the most part, though a bit less), Shyvana (same domain as Lee), Pantheon, Shaco, Twitch, Trundle, and untraditional junglers like Fiora, Riven, Volibear, Tryn, Master Yi, Jayce, Gangplank, Jax, etc. If they don't get some really great ganks off, they are useless for the rest of the game. What this jungle change will do is ultimately bring up the latter class of junglers, since now they can opt to just jungle and actually make decent income, and not have to take a coin flip on whether or not the enemy will allow them to get off good ganks this game, as well as once again promote counter jungling, and yet keep the support tanky junglers in meta. Just because there is more gold in the jungle to get doesn't mean you can't still play the gank-heavy junglers. It keeps them where they are at but brings the other class back up to an even playing field with them, and it boils down to mostly preference and what the team needs. However, as I said in my earlier post, the junglers I have a feeling that will dominate the season 3 jungle are those that can clear quickly, so they can get a lot of that extra jungle gold, yet still gank reasonably well. [/quote] I agree with this, +rep. I can't wait to try everything out in the new jungle. :D[/quote]

[quote=Andarun][quote=OTGBionicArm] I used to play Top-Naut all the time, didn't really have a problem against most foes, but you generally freeze lane and keep your distance. And obviously [[Nautilus]] responds very well to ganks. [/quote] Well, I just listed the problematic matchups (maybe I was exaggarating a little), and it's usually a better idea to leave top lane to someone who benefits from all that farm (not sayin that [[Nautilus]] doesn't, but other champs benefit more from it, ie [[Riven]], [[Singed]], etc). And when are we gonna see them [[Shen]] nerfs? He's really a pain in the ass to play against.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm][quote=Andarun] [quote=OTGBionicArm] I used to play Top-Naut all the time, didn't really have a problem against most foes, but you generally freeze lane and keep your distance. And obviously [[Nautilus]] responds very well to ganks. [/quote] Well, I just listed the problematic matchups (maybe I was exaggarating a little), and it's usually a better idea to leave top lane to someone who benefits from all that farm (not sayin that [[Nautilus]] doesn't, but other champs do it better). And when are we gonna see them [[Shen]] nerfs? He's really a pain in the ass to play against. [/quote] I don't think they could possibly nerf [[Shen]] anymore without ruining him, honestly he's no better than he was before they overbuffed him, seeing as they progressively nerfed him back. XD His overbuff just kinda made people realize his ultimate is always OP. Can't think of how they can really fix that. And like I said, you CAN do Bruiser/AP [[Nautilus, which loves all that creep gold :p[/quote]

[quote=wRAthoFVuLK]Tem, Did he do defense tree, armor yellows, start armor and shield? With a leash and that you can take on basically anything. Keep in mind that isn't final and the new mastery trees will tailor to the new jungle. Also remember, with Naut, besides buffs and some camp clears, your main focus is still getting out gank after gank. @Naut top, the reason it isn't popular is because aggressive tops are where it's at. Like And said, he loses a lot too, and like you said yourself OTG, you have to play passively which just gets abused by current meta top laners (see: Jayce, Irelia, Singed, etc. -- try to play passive vs. them and see what happens)[/quote]

[quote=wRAthoFVuLK]Shen is just kind of broken at the concept of his ult. It just promotes a playstyle against him and with him that wouldn't otherwise exist and his global presence is just annoying. The only real way to make him balanced is completely change his ult but keep it as a supporty ult. In the meanwhile, they can at least reduce the shield amount a bit and give it an energy cost.[/quote]

[quote=OTGBionicArm]Yea, I played Top-Naut when he was released, haven't played him since then. XD[/quote]

[quote=Andarun][quote=wRAthoFVuLK] No, Nautilus will still be good in s3 jungle. The new jungle, if it works as predicted, will allow ALL kinds of junglers to be successful, which is the goal of the rework. Season 1, you had to play tanky champs with good damage so you can go through camps without dying. Season 2, camps give shit gold, so you basically play junglers that don't rely on gold to do work -- people that are innately tanky and are never useless because they have cc (mao's root, ult, and slow never become useless even if he is level 6 when everyone is level 12; same with Naut, Skarner, Malphite, Shen, even Rammus, etc.); they can just build gold items and a cheap support build and not have to worry about jungling much except to get buffs and during downtime. Junglers that require a lot of gold to be really strong and are kind of lackluster in early ganks simply don't do well in the current state. They don't get the gold they need from staying in the jungle, so they fall off quickly, and they are useless without that gold -- they don't have potent ganks like the previously mentioned junglers. Such ones are Warwick, Lee Sin (for the most part, though a bit less), Shyvana (same domain as Lee), Pantheon, Shaco, Twitch, Trundle, and untraditional junglers like Fiora, Riven, Volibear, Tryn, Master Yi, Jayce, Gangplank, Jax, etc. If they don't get some really great ganks off, they are useless for the rest of the game. What this jungle change will do is ultimately bring up the latter class of junglers, since now they can opt to just jungle and actually make decent income, and not have to take a coin flip on whether or not the enemy will allow them to get off good ganks this game, as well as once again promote counter jungling, and yet keep the support tanky junglers in meta. Just because there is more gold in the jungle to get doesn't mean you can't still play the gank-heavy junglers. It keeps them where they are at but brings the other class back up to an even playing field with them, and it boils down to mostly preference and what the team needs. However, as I said in my earlier post, the junglers I have a feeling that will dominate the season 3 jungle are those that can clear quickly, so they can get a lot of that extra jungle gold, yet still gank reasonably well. [/quote] Yay, [[Tryndamere]] makes a comeback! ... OH GOD [[Tryndamere]] MAKES A COMEBACK.[/quote]