ziggs is NOT op

[quote=Dainou][quote=Dypheus] [quote=Dainou] [quote=Vapora Dark] I didn't think Ziggs was OP. Until I saw him take down a full health Xin Zhao in under 2 seconds. That changed my mind. [/quote] Eh....this is hopeless, but gonna try anyway.... 1. What lv was Ziggs? 2. Lv of Xin? 3. Xin item? 4. Ziggs item? 5. He is a burst mage..... Done the same with Gragas and Xerath, Brand would if there is minion that ulti bounce on, Cass would just do it a few sec later......Dont really see the point. Cause he is not much different from Gragas if you look at it. Only reason he wins damage war with Gragas is 50 more base damade on ulti, lower cd on Q but less damage with lower scale and damage on E. W is just 10 or 5 base damage lower then Gragas E. [/quote] You also calculated t Gragas damage reduction skill or something? I Could be wrong to lazy to check it. [/quote] Not sure what you mean, but I will explain what I did. Which was checking up the damage out put and they are pretty close, but Ziggs takes it take to he got another spell that deals damage and can use is Q again before Gragas can. But it's cause of Gragas not being a full squishy mage in the same way and our beloved fat man gets more survivability, durability, lane sustain and more utility then our new crazy gremlin that should stay away from Brand or all his bombs might go off before he counted it. [quote=caucheka] you're right i should of noted gragas. but the problem is gragas is more of a tanky ap than a full up mage. his kit (passive/w) supports being beefy while ziggs doesnt. [/quote] Yes of course, but here is my point. Both there are build around Q and Ulti damage, where Gragas Q got more base damage, better scale, AS reduction and higher cd. While Ziggs Q is more spam friendly, there of lower base damage, scale and lower cd. Gragas ulti is dealing 450 with 1.0 scale and Ziggs 500 with 0.9. A bit more damage on Ziggs and higher range. While Gragas restart fight and got lower cd, with almost the same aoe range and hits for full through whole aoe. The damage is similar, but they got different usage. Also Ziggs W+E is pretty close to Gragas E, difference is that it's two skill for Ziggs, almost the same damage on Ziggs W and Gragas E. Ziggs got a range slow that wont put him in harms way. But there difference is that Ziggs is build more for damage and not getting in harms way, while Gragas is like you say, a tanky AP with a damage reduction skill and more sustain for lane.[/quote]

[quote=Protocol]The thing about Ziggs, is if you dodge his Q, he can't kill you at all. In fact, if you dodge his Q (as cass) and you're able to get decently close to him while doing it, its a free kill.[/quote]

[quote=Zoki]I'm here to say that Ziggs is OP.[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS][quote=Zoki] I'm here to say that Ziggs is OP. [/quote] Just to be that guy aye zoki? @caucheka: I'm sure it is the q harass that has everyone being all pissy. Not to mention that the spotlight shows ziggs doing some hard core damage to tanks...tanks with no mr and clearly no real defensive items. But if you look at his ability demonstration against jarvan he was barely tickling him. @lugig: anivia, gragas, orianna, heimerdinger, and now ziggs are all imo position control champs. My whole opinion on ziggs is that he's a lot of fun to play. His satchel charge...literally deals no damage to champions. Or so it looks to me. His skill set is dependant on the players ability to land his abilities. Missing a satchel or missing a mine field completely shuts him down. People who think he's op need to play him.[/quote]

[quote=Dainou][quote=Protocol] The thing about Ziggs, is if you dodge his Q, he can't kill you at all. In fact, if you dodge his Q (as cass) and you're able to get decently close to him while doing it, its a free kill. [/quote] Which is true about everyone which is dependent on there Q for damage, like Gragas and pre lv 6 Xerath. But if you are good you shouldn't miss those Qs, that also mean if you are good and can get the timing down, you will dodge the Q. Gonna show what I mean. Me (Swain) vs Xerath - got my feathers plucked for the early 3 levels and had to go back when I was close to death. But I learned how my enemy aimed and picked his shots, which lead me to win. But then you need to do it the other way to. Me (Xerath) vs (anything) - I get in a few Q kill or not, the enemy starting to learn when I will use Q and adapt. I get my ass kicked and I have to adapt to how he will move and dodge. Thats the fun part with skillshots :)[/quote]

[quote=Zoki]Who here actually played Ziggs, amongst those who state that he is not OP? I played him few games, bad and good and I can tell you, he is OP.[/quote]

[quote=Bullet Knuckle]AYE ... he is not OP ... he is just Overrated Pfftt .... -.-[/quote]

[quote=JEFFY40HANDS]I've actually played him. He is a skill shot based champ. If you can hit his abilities gg if you miss what then? His 1 is all he really has for damage early game. His ulti gets up there but its easy to dodge depending on range from target when cast. Lots of damage does not mean op. If his abilities were all targetable and he dealt similar damage id say different. But as is you have to work with 2 long cool downs on his main skill set with small amounts of dmg. And a short cd harass that is easily avoided if people pay attention. Facing bad players doesn't make a champ op. Just makes them bad. Imo his skill set affords him the damage. But he isn't op. He has no reliable hard cc and no truly reliable source of damage in comparison to someone like annie or ryze. Champs with targeted abilities.[/quote]

[quote=Zoki]You better hit all skills then if you pick him :)[/quote]

[quote=example1013]I think Gragas is OP personally.[/quote]