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New Voting System

Creator: Apotheosis October 10, 2010 5:06pm
59 posts - page 5 of 6
Oberron
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I see where you are coming from Matt and DEWO, and in that case, the system you have in place is probably one of the better methods I've seen. I know that most people don't look beyond the % before just picking a build, so it's going to take a lot of time for someone's build to go anywhere in the rankings if there are already one or two 80%+ builds. The similar builds window helps newer and less voted builds get some headnods, so that's really nice too.

Maybe a minimum number of votes before setting a % on a guide would be a good idea so that a brand new build can't be trolled to the bottom automatically. Maybe somewhere between 5-10 votes and/or comments. I know this really puts older guides at a disadvantage, but if they are that good, they will have staying power anyway. Especially guides from people like DEWO who are constantly updating to stay current.

And as per your question Matt, I would determine 'excessive downvoting' on a votes/time basis. 1 downvote a day, no prob. 100 downvotes a day, obvious prob. 10-15?, a little harder to determine. That people massive downvote spam is not a problem, especially since it was reviewed by the admin that has no problem with it. That was actually in the scope of my suggestion and has been laid to rest in my eyes because you have pretty much shown that you already are doing that.

I would hate the idea of a vote buying system, as people who are trying to abuse the system would up-vote the most unpopular builds just to 'buy' down-votes for the most popular builds. Same issue. Maybe a probationary period for new accounts before being allowed to vote? I know that I started my account almost 1.5-2 months before I even posted a comment, let alone a vote. Before that, I was reading forums for almost 2-3 months as a guest. Mayhaps having to post in forums a set number of times before being allowed to vote is an alternative (just tossing ideas now, as I don't like this one) for time-based voting privilages? I see that being easily abused, but at least I'm throwing it out there to look at.
Restrictnine#5232
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I have found that if you do not have friends in high or low places on MOBAfire, you get trolled instantly. My Lux guide is nearly identical to the top lux guide, but i have about 20 votes less, and the same amount of downvotes. Tell me how that makes sense. I have better organization, more BBCode, and actually have a tried and true build to go on. Not bashing the top guide, as it really is the same build more or less, but i mean come on. If its the same, then why am i getting bashed so badly be downvotes that lack comments?
Click on the Banner to see my new and improved Udyr guide!


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Oberron
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Probably because they are nearly identical, people may feel that you copied the top build and downvote, or refuse to vote at all. That's just my perspective anyway.
Matt
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Oberron, nobody casts 100 down votes a day :) You guys are assuming there is some army of trolls rampaging through the site destroying your builds, it is not so. The down votes come from all kinds of people. Even so, it's still not enough for me to assume their votes are invalid and wipe them out. Someone voting from the same IP multiple times I can fairly block - even that prevents some fair use, such as people sharing an office or LAN center, but that is the minority.

Restrictnine, like Oberron said, if your build is nearly identical to a build that is already near the top people are going to recognize that and they will judge your build more harshly. Additionally, being in high places on MOBA can also attract trolls to your builds. When we did our first sweep for multi-voters the most attacked people by far were the most respected and well known community members. They had to fight to get where they are, even before we had all these new features to make things more fair.
SixSonatas
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@DEWO I did not intend to sound like I was threatening people to vote my guide, I realize that there are various styles to play every hero and mine's just one of the many. It's just that as a new build writer I WANT criticism if I get downvoted.

Think of it this way. You're doing bad in a class and the teacher doesn't give you any advice on how to improve. I know that voters on MOBA aren't obligated to help writers, but in that case what's a downvote going to do? You're not obligated to vote either.

So what's the difference between voting and giving criticism? Voting takes a push of a button while people actually have to think about what they want to see improved. It's all about laziness, really.

Now, laziness. They're obviously not THAT lazy if they're going to vote, but yet they don't give criticism; this means there's either a medium in that laziness or an incentive to vote. What do MOBA players get from voting? Absolutely nothing. Why vote? I don't know, probably because they want to click a little button for some random reason.

Really, it's less likely to be laziness than incentive to vote, either way, up or down. Most people who vote up will comment and tell you what they like, but why doesn't it go the other way? People who vote down will RARELY comment and tell you what they DISlike. That's just my train of thought.
Super old vet that almost never goes on Mobafire anymore. Contact me in game @ SixSonatas and Mobafire chat (NA).
Oberron
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Matt wrote:

Oberron, nobody casts 100 down votes a day :) You guys are assuming there is some army of trolls rampaging through the site destroying your builds, it is not so. The down votes come from all kinds of people. Even so, it's still not enough for me to assume their votes are invalid and wipe them out. Someone voting from the same IP multiple times I can fairly block - even that prevents some fair use, such as people sharing an office or LAN center, but that is the minority.


Ok, I was being sarcastic about 100 votes a day, as you asked me to define too many votes. We agree that 100 votes would be ungodly and outside of the realm of normal voting behavior. I'm not assuming that there is an army of trolls, just that there are new accounts made everyday just so people can downvote when they get murdered using a build and having no experience with a char. I also never said to make the votes invalid, just submit them to review to ensure that there is no voting trend/abuse. You're ok with the votes, then I'm ok with the votes.
Restrictnine#5232
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I like what Six said. It really hurts our chances at becoming known on MOBA when our guides take huge hits and instantly prevent us from being known in the guide section. I would assume we are relatively well known in Forums, but most people dont even look at forums. I didn't even look at the forums until about 3 months after i joined, when i decided i wanted to be able to make better guides with icons and stamps for my signature.
Click on the Banner to see my new and improved Udyr guide!


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hypershatter
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Quoted:

I like what Six said. It really hurts our chances at becoming known on MOBA when our guides take huge hits and instantly prevent us from being known in the guide section. I would assume we are relatively well known in Forums, but most people dont even look at forums. I didn't even look at the forums until about 3 months after i joined, when i decided i wanted to be able to make better guides with icons and stamps for my signature.


one way to get known is make quality guides for heroes that lack guides.

p.s. 5 bucks the noob that made "lux best carry ever!" guide downvoted every other lux guides out there. i will pay via visa.
Restrictnine#5232
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one way to get known is make quality guides for heroes that lack guides.

p.s. 5 bucks the noob that made "lux best carry ever!" guide downvoted every other lux guides out there. i will pay via visa.

See, im in second, and have way more votes than any of the guides below me... but im only like... 6% ahead of them. That is ridiculous. I also made a guide for Fiddlesticks, which is currently the top fiddle guide, but it is constantly trolled. I made an Udyr guide, which almost made it to the top, but got trolled back to 60%, and now no one looks at it. I made a Taric guide that almost made it to top ten of the month, but it got trolled too. The only one that didnt really get trolled is Warwick, but thats because no one has to worry about someone beating their guide in the ww section because DEWO has it on lockdown.
Click on the Banner to see my new and improved Udyr guide!


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Apotheosis
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I'm impressed in the effort so far that you've provided for a new champion. No doubt you're still probably working on it, and people will have a general idea on how to grasp her for the time being. Just check out my post here and see if that helps you ease up a bit http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/forum/mobafire-support/how-does-the-voting-and-scoring-system-work-608#lastcomment

Let's just stay on topic from here out. Trolls will be history if we focus on this topic instead of worrying all the time. We all know that in order to solve this problem, we need a valid series of ideas. How long will it take? Who knows. It might help if you thought like a troll :P Just don't perform like one.

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