Quoted:
The only thing is that it would require a post to follow a vote, and often times people don't feel like typing. So this person's vote may be legit, but a lack of writing immediately discounts his vote? that could lead to less voting. i still like the voting on posts idea. the most negative posts are the ones that get no vote on the guide.
First off, I assume that this was directed to me, but I can't be sure because you didn't gimme an @<name> in your post. My ideas wouldn't require a comment to be posted, as this information could easily be tracked, or even linked, to a person's profile by administrators, assuming that there is a tracking record for each individual on the server-side (which is commonly done on major forums). If it is not already being done, it may be something to consider anyway.
If we're just looking for flaws, the major one is that some people are just hyper-critical and will constantly downvote, while at the same time, some people are teddybears and will almost always upvote. Both are problems, but that's why the normalized rating system is a good idea.
Restrictnine#5232
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Well I dont have the heart to downvote, so i almost never downvote. BUT, i prefer to give advice and not vote at all of the guide sucks. i agree, the post thing is in its early stages, and there is a long way to go on adjusting it, but im overall happy with what moba is doing.
Click on the Banner to see my new and improved Udyr guide!
Guides By RestrictNine, A.K.A. Taggrin
Restrictnine#5232
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How do you determine excessive down voting? Some people down vote every spam build they find, and they may not up vote other builds for whatever reason, but this behavior shouldn't be punished - down voting the spam builds is part of why the voting system is there in the first place. We have suggested a "down vote buying" system in the past where you have to have X up votes for every X down votes, but that comes with its own problems and we decided against it.
A lot of the focus on down votes is not gonna get us anywhere. People are going to down vote, it's just the way they are. Blocking the multi-account abusers helped a lot and we still keep an eye out for people trying to find loopholes, it's rare but we have caught a couple. Adding the score weights helped even more. A voting system is there to allow the public to decide what they like and what they don't. Just because someone down votes a build, which the author thinks is an amazing build, doesn't mean their vote is automatically invalid. This is a competitive community, and they can judge very harshly. Yet we still have builds that climb the ranks, some are very new and climbed quickly, from authors that didn't even have a history on the site.
I've spent a lot of time in the database, there aren't people going crazy down voting everything they see. The heaviest voters are people that I have monitored and I know they are voting honestly and in the way they feel is best for the community.
Rather than focusing on how to delete/cancel/discount the votes themselves, I would prefer to focus on organizing the high volume of content we have, helping people find what they want more easily, and bringing the real gems out. There are SO many new builds every day, that people just can't keep up with them.
A lot of the focus on down votes is not gonna get us anywhere. People are going to down vote, it's just the way they are. Blocking the multi-account abusers helped a lot and we still keep an eye out for people trying to find loopholes, it's rare but we have caught a couple. Adding the score weights helped even more. A voting system is there to allow the public to decide what they like and what they don't. Just because someone down votes a build, which the author thinks is an amazing build, doesn't mean their vote is automatically invalid. This is a competitive community, and they can judge very harshly. Yet we still have builds that climb the ranks, some are very new and climbed quickly, from authors that didn't even have a history on the site.
I've spent a lot of time in the database, there aren't people going crazy down voting everything they see. The heaviest voters are people that I have monitored and I know they are voting honestly and in the way they feel is best for the community.
Rather than focusing on how to delete/cancel/discount the votes themselves, I would prefer to focus on organizing the high volume of content we have, helping people find what they want more easily, and bringing the real gems out. There are SO many new builds every day, that people just can't keep up with them.
Matt, if you read Apothesis' or my guide, you'll notice that we've spent a lot of time on it and pretty much put every consideration into making the guide work in games. I understand that there will be people who criticize and downvote. I agree with that notion.
However, it's when people downvote WITHOUT A REASON that discourages hardworking writers like me from writing more builds. Honestly, I probably won't write another build just because I'm getting trolled on by downvoters without any criticism. Despite the trolls I'm still at a 9/12. Alahric recommended and +1'd my guide, and if people are going to downvote I really want to know what is it that my guide is lacking that's making them downvote.
Now, why does this discourage me from writing more guides? I know Apothesis understands me, and we've spent a lot of time writing our guides to put in every single thought of the playing style into our guides and if there's anything to be downvoted, we WANT to know what we're MISSING. Downvotes discourage writers, and if you look at my build and score, at the moment I might just be considering never writing another build again because of the lack of reason.
This is what I think: "Oh, people are just downvoting my build for NO REASON. I do not know what my builds are MISSING and so I do not know how to improve them. I think I won't write anymore guides because they'll get TROLLED on, too."
Really, take a look into the time I spent on mine, and read it over. After that, go rate it, up or down, and give me a reason. Build writers are reasonable people, too. We take criticism as long as it's backed up by a reason.
The lack of a reason coupled with a bad response will make build writers not want to write or spend as much time on builds anymore. That's just my opinion, but I'm sure many people share its view with me.
However, it's when people downvote WITHOUT A REASON that discourages hardworking writers like me from writing more builds. Honestly, I probably won't write another build just because I'm getting trolled on by downvoters without any criticism. Despite the trolls I'm still at a 9/12. Alahric recommended and +1'd my guide, and if people are going to downvote I really want to know what is it that my guide is lacking that's making them downvote.
Now, why does this discourage me from writing more guides? I know Apothesis understands me, and we've spent a lot of time writing our guides to put in every single thought of the playing style into our guides and if there's anything to be downvoted, we WANT to know what we're MISSING. Downvotes discourage writers, and if you look at my build and score, at the moment I might just be considering never writing another build again because of the lack of reason.
This is what I think: "Oh, people are just downvoting my build for NO REASON. I do not know what my builds are MISSING and so I do not know how to improve them. I think I won't write anymore guides because they'll get TROLLED on, too."
Really, take a look into the time I spent on mine, and read it over. After that, go rate it, up or down, and give me a reason. Build writers are reasonable people, too. We take criticism as long as it's backed up by a reason.
The lack of a reason coupled with a bad response will make build writers not want to write or spend as much time on builds anymore. That's just my opinion, but I'm sure many people share its view with me.
Super old vet that almost never goes on Mobafire anymore. Contact me in game @ SixSonatas and Mobafire chat (NA).
Restrictnine#5232
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I agree with the above response. I worked my butt off on the guides i put out [other than taric, which was a bit of a fail guide] but the other three i put a lot of time and effort into. My fiddlesticks build, which was my first build, as well as the first one i updated with icons, etc., is my most popular build.
Now, I agree that a Jungle Fiddlesticks guide may not be the most popular, mainly because many people think there are better junglers, but just because it is a jungle guide, doesnt automatically make it a poor guide. I agree 100% that changes must be made, but how in the world can a guide rated 83% with a recommendation from a vet drop to one of my worst guides in a few days? With only ONE negative criticism. Which i talked to him about, and convinced him that the guide did in fact work if you used all the stuff i stated in the guide. PotatisFarFar was the only one to give me advice on what to change in the guide. All the downvotes i have received so far came from mysterious "trolls", and i just keep getting more and more frustrated.
Now lets look at my Udyr guide. Personally, this is my best guide. Not because it works the best, but because I put far more time into it than any of my other guides. I explained every detail, every item, every technique i use. Downvoting should not be because you disagree with something, it should be because you think this build could be more effective if built in a different manner. For example. Say someone stumbles upon my guide and sees an offtank Udyr build. Now, if this person feels that DPS udyr is the only way to play him, This person may automatically downvote my guide without even looking at all the hard work i put into it. My guides are in the top 5 for each champ for a reason, not just by pure luck. People love to see good descriptions.
I was planning on making an updated Udyr guide that is more suitable for ganking, but after the recent wave of mysterious downvotes, i have lost a lot of motivation to do anything of the sort, purely because i feel like people just vote down my builds to keep me out of recognition.
This doesnt realy have anything to do with the topic, but im following up on what SixSonatas did. We have fairly similar Description styles, and we can both attest to the problem. It hurts to know that the people that spend hours and hours over several days to come up with a finished product that they can be proud of, end up with scores just as low as the people that wrote no description at all. No one looks at the 6/12 guide, even if the 6 downvotes were angry people that hate the champ. People only look at the top 3 or 4 guides, because they are the most positively voted, and therefore they must work the best.
Now, I agree that a Jungle Fiddlesticks guide may not be the most popular, mainly because many people think there are better junglers, but just because it is a jungle guide, doesnt automatically make it a poor guide. I agree 100% that changes must be made, but how in the world can a guide rated 83% with a recommendation from a vet drop to one of my worst guides in a few days? With only ONE negative criticism. Which i talked to him about, and convinced him that the guide did in fact work if you used all the stuff i stated in the guide. PotatisFarFar was the only one to give me advice on what to change in the guide. All the downvotes i have received so far came from mysterious "trolls", and i just keep getting more and more frustrated.
Now lets look at my Udyr guide. Personally, this is my best guide. Not because it works the best, but because I put far more time into it than any of my other guides. I explained every detail, every item, every technique i use. Downvoting should not be because you disagree with something, it should be because you think this build could be more effective if built in a different manner. For example. Say someone stumbles upon my guide and sees an offtank Udyr build. Now, if this person feels that DPS udyr is the only way to play him, This person may automatically downvote my guide without even looking at all the hard work i put into it. My guides are in the top 5 for each champ for a reason, not just by pure luck. People love to see good descriptions.
I was planning on making an updated Udyr guide that is more suitable for ganking, but after the recent wave of mysterious downvotes, i have lost a lot of motivation to do anything of the sort, purely because i feel like people just vote down my builds to keep me out of recognition.
This doesnt realy have anything to do with the topic, but im following up on what SixSonatas did. We have fairly similar Description styles, and we can both attest to the problem. It hurts to know that the people that spend hours and hours over several days to come up with a finished product that they can be proud of, end up with scores just as low as the people that wrote no description at all. No one looks at the 6/12 guide, even if the 6 downvotes were angry people that hate the champ. People only look at the top 3 or 4 guides, because they are the most positively voted, and therefore they must work the best.
Click on the Banner to see my new and improved Udyr guide!
Guides By RestrictNine, A.K.A. Taggrin
@ SixSonatas
I dont want to sound rude but, after reading your whole post i came up with a vision of this:
"I got downvoted, but i put alot of effort in this, but i got downvoted, but i put alot effort in it and still i got downvoted, i got even a "quality mark" and i still get downvote, but my guide looks pretty and it has big long desc with pics and stuff but i still get downvotes..."
so on so on so on.
Its like you DEMAND getting +1 becouse you made a guide.
You cant say that ppl "downvote WITHOUT A REASON". Trolling is still a reason. they could add a comment "i downvoted becouse i had a bad day". Still a reason. Beeing a ****head, but a reason.
Reading the:
"that discourages hardworking writers like me from writing more builds. Honestly, I probably won't write another build"
or
"this discourage me from writing more guides"
or
"Downvotes discourage writers, and if you look at my build and score, at the moment I might just be considering never writing another build again"
This is sorry but a harrasment. It sounds like "make my guide best or else" threat directed into MOBAFire admins.
Atm your guide has 13 votes. Give it some time. chill dude. trolls go here and there, if your guide will be good it will get noteced.
Just to compare, Lets take my Warwick guide. I have 360/417 so total 417 votes and i got 57 downvotes. If you study the 323 comments it has, i got 2 (max 3 if i remember correctly) comments that told me why a person did a -1 on this guide. If you calculate that... this is 5% of all negative votes.
If you want to write that kind of stuff i think you didnt get the point of this thread at all.
Apo create this thread not for QQ'ing. He made this topic so ppl could share opinions, and mainly GIVE IDEAS how to improve the system. We lack this in your response. You dont have any new idea how to improve the system? Than:
Again sorry for responding like a little *****...
I dont want to sound rude but, after reading your whole post i came up with a vision of this:
"I got downvoted, but i put alot of effort in this, but i got downvoted, but i put alot effort in it and still i got downvoted, i got even a "quality mark" and i still get downvote, but my guide looks pretty and it has big long desc with pics and stuff but i still get downvotes..."
so on so on so on.
Its like you DEMAND getting +1 becouse you made a guide.
You cant say that ppl "downvote WITHOUT A REASON". Trolling is still a reason. they could add a comment "i downvoted becouse i had a bad day". Still a reason. Beeing a ****head, but a reason.
Reading the:
"that discourages hardworking writers like me from writing more builds. Honestly, I probably won't write another build"
or
"this discourage me from writing more guides"
or
"Downvotes discourage writers, and if you look at my build and score, at the moment I might just be considering never writing another build again"
This is sorry but a harrasment. It sounds like "make my guide best or else" threat directed into MOBAFire admins.
Atm your guide has 13 votes. Give it some time. chill dude. trolls go here and there, if your guide will be good it will get noteced.
Just to compare, Lets take my Warwick guide. I have 360/417 so total 417 votes and i got 57 downvotes. If you study the 323 comments it has, i got 2 (max 3 if i remember correctly) comments that told me why a person did a -1 on this guide. If you calculate that... this is 5% of all negative votes.
If you want to write that kind of stuff i think you didnt get the point of this thread at all.
Apo create this thread not for QQ'ing. He made this topic so ppl could share opinions, and mainly GIVE IDEAS how to improve the system. We lack this in your response. You dont have any new idea how to improve the system? Than:
Again sorry for responding like a little *****...
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