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Why are the guide voting bars so inaccurate?

Creator: Lasoor April 6, 2017 5:56am
Lasoor
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The score is meant to portray how well liked a thing is. It normally isn't for comparisons. You don't go off of votes to see if a guide is better, a sensible person will go off of things like "Who made it", "What does this guide accomplish for me", and "Do other players feel this guide is good?". Not "Is this guide the top guide?".

We already have guides being sorted to the top based on their votes, and probably other things. So no sense in using the voting bar for guide comparisons.
Ekki
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Well that's for the mobafire crew to determine. And it seems to be for comparison, why else would it be there for? You want to know which one is liked the most to answer the "Do other players feel this guide is good?" question. Just an order doesn't give all the details, so having a bar for comparison still adds some useful info.

What kind of useful information do you think showing a plain upvote/downvote ratio gives? How is that information more useful than having the actual bar representing the score?
OTGBionicArm
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The new system is fair. Now you actually have to work for a good rating. Before (and I, like many others on the site abused this) you just asked like 10 of your friends to upvote your guide and BAM, number 1 spot for that champion.

It was a pretty dumb and even more misleading system. We legit had gunblade Karthus as his number 1 guide for awhile. And I think we liked the absurdity of it just a bit too much.
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If a guide has 5 votes in favor of it and the bar isn't full then based on the solid fact that you don't see which way people voted for ever, most people will look at it and assume people down voted your guide. Which would be an inaccurate assumption, but a reasonable assumption considering that is what the bar is leading them to believe.

Point of it showing the % of positive votes is simply because that way people can quickly see if the guide is worth their time. And there is literally no sense in looking at a guide just because it is the top guide, that is a rubbish way of finding out a build to use. People prefer to look for builds that fit them and their role. If they find one and see the bar at halfway point they will likely assume that it is poorly received and not bother looking at it. When the reality is, it is just new or lacks votes as a result of not many people even voting on guides.

I speak from experience. Before I was even a member on this site I looked for guides on champions I wanted to try out often. The primary things I looked at were elo, how green bar was, and the core build to see if it fit my preferred play style or role. And when I looked at the bar I was looking to see if the build was down voted a lot.


My suggestion would be if they are really set on this then at least show how many up and down votes.
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They don't do that anymore? Not even on the actual guide page?

Didn't even check tbh. Been months since I logged onto the site.
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Doesn't look like they do.
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Hello, let me just talk a little about why we use a Bayesian average (weighted) score instead of a flat score.

Just like in league, if you are 1-0, that doesn't make you the top of the crop. You have to prove yourself some more. We need more data to ensure that indeed, people do really like your guide and it deserves a great score. It would not really be fair to authors or sensible to readers to display a 1-0 guide over a 19-1 guide, even though it has a higher flat score it's a lot safer to say that people generally like the 19-1 guide.

Now that is why we do the SORTING (order on lists) that way. So why did we change the score displayed on the guide itself recently?

Simply put having 2 different score shown with the same display is confusing. When we first implemented the new ranking system that accounts for recent votes rather than all time votes, we left the guide score as their all time score so that all our older authors would have a place to check it / be proud of it. However, time goes by and the amount of people that saw our explanation of where each score displayed has dwindled, and authors get confused by their scores looking different in different places (and for good reason, it is confusing).

So we changed them to both be matching the weighted score, since that is what the guide rankings are based on and what most people use to compare their guides to other guides.

@ Lasoor I think you are assuming that everyone knows how they want to play a champion and can therefore look at the build preview and decide, but that is not the case for a lot of players. Either they are very new and don't know the items well, or they are just unfamiliar with the champion / role. Either way, this is what the vote bar is there for, to give an indication of the general community approval of that guide. Which is why the vote bar / guide ranking system needs to have some sort of weighting instead of being flat. Now, I'm not saying that we couldn't add more information or other indicators, just talking about the vote bar.



Aaaaaand to wrap all this up, like Wayne said, we are looking at improving / clarifying the guide scores and score displays across the site right now. It has been a while since they were last changed and they could just use an update.
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Lasoor
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep April 8, 2017 9:28am | Report
Regardless the voting bars look glitched or wrong from any perspective that lacks knowledge of how you do it. Reason is simple, it is an odd type of display with no real explanation of what it means in a visible location near it.

Only reason I know how it works is because you guys have repeated how it works 3 times now on the same thread. How will the readers of the guides know?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep April 8, 2017 9:40am | Report
They don't do that anymore? Not even on the actual guide page?

Didn't even check tbh. Been months since I logged onto the site.


Why are you trying to contribute and make your opinion known if you haven't checked and don't know whats up?
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OTGBionicArm
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Suppose I'm your new target, eh?

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