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A discussion on reviews and the depiction of...

Creator: Searz August 20, 2013 2:14am
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caucheka
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep August 20, 2013 3:42pm | Report
wait are people actually listening to anita?
I like things that make me feel stupid. - Ken Levine
GrandmasterD
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep August 20, 2013 3:47pm | Report
MrCuddowls wrote:

It's obvious you guys aren't paying attention to the details in the video.




W/e other videos she has done is irrelevant, the entire story in that particular series is well thought out and presents a good point of view without a radical mindset. Tbh I don't think it's a particular feminist video whatsoever, it simply addresses a certain design element in video games that's actually just archaic and can't be taken seriously anymore.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep August 20, 2013 3:50pm | Report
if i can cut into Cudds...weird...anti-feminism thing...
I enjoyed Kitetales' view point on this particular video.
THAT BEING SAID, I do think that the portrayal of some women in video games is a problem. I agree with TB that the damsel in distress trope is rather lazy at this point and that, if it's going to be used, the characters should be developed more so that you actually care. At the same time though, it's the game dev's right to make whatever kinda game they want to and it's our responsibility to vote with our money as consumers and not just buy a game because it's visually appealing.
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jhoijhoi wrote:

Over-sexualisation of women in video games sits fine with me as long as it's not over done, like a women with breasts that resemble huge flowing pillows of flesh - it just looks ridiculous. Technically, a women with breasts that large would not wear the kind of clothing that they are depicted in, AND would have a **** tonne of back pain as a consequence for no support.

I don't mind seeing scantily clad women, as the female body is beautiful and if drawn well, can improve the aesthetic features of the game. Just the same way a male body can be enticing to see. A nice body, whether male or female, is easy on the eyes. I'm not going to get into "but people are perfect just the way they are" - there is a "standard" of appreciated body types, and well developed/endowed females is the ideal design (unless the character is a young child, or obviously "normal" to fit a certain role).

So my stance on female characters looking sexy on screen is fine. I wouldn't expect to see an "ugly" female lead character unless that fits her role in the game.

My problem with the game in question in the review is that only the lead characters are "strong" women, with the NPCs being depicted as girls to be rescued. I haven't played the game, but Total mentioned it repeatedly. In terms of context, wherein fantasy is based on fantastical medieval history - yes, I can accept that there were few women with power, as women in that age had no rights. But game makers don't have to follow exact history. And they clearly didn't with the Amazon woman character - so where are the other Amazon women not shackled to a bed in a seductive pose waiting to be rescued?

tldr: when a female's anatomy looks ridiculous, I don't like it. When it's done well and tastefully/realistically, I'm all for it. When a main female character is given a "good" role, I'm happy. When all NPC females are "damsels waiting to be rescued", I'm not happy.


In my opinion realism is far more appealing than a fantasy image. If you take it too far from reality it becomes ridiculous in itself. Some kind of female warrior who wears like a metal bikini is just outright stupid and loses all touch with reality. Characters such as Lara Croft from the latest Tomb Raider, Samus Aran from the Metroid Prime trilogy and Faith from Mirror's Edge all have a certain kind of realism to them and are therefore more appealing than their 2-dimensional counterparts.

Character, obviously, has a lot to do with that as well but as stated in the video - if women remain damsels in distress, their character becomes ultimately irrelevant. I don't think every game picked was a great example because some use the element quite well. Examples of this are Splinter Cell: Double Agent and Alan Wake. The reason for this, in my opinion, is that the woman isn't actually relevant. While that might sound even worse, it isn't. The woman is just there for an emotional connection, that extra push the hero needs to actually do this as in both games the hero's life just gets turned upside-down and on top of that; a female loved one has vanished.

Also, even when the certain timeframe doesn't allow women to be central characters; that doesn't mean they should be compeltely useless. They can be sidekicks, useful NPCs who provide the main character with information, etc. Currently, male characters come in a huge variety - it's no longer heroes and villains but also shades of grey. Female characters are much more stereotypical and that's probably because game design is still a world of men who, most likely, have trouble creating female characters with the same characteristics.
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OK I'll post the other two videos as well.


Quoted:

W/e other videos she has done is irrelevant, the entire story in that particular series is well thought out and presents a good point of view without a radical mindset.


So making major ***pulls by cherry picking non existent anti-female concepts in a bunch of games that were made by people who did not have the slightest thought about feminists during the production of the game is somehow a well thought out good point?
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MrCuddowls wrote:

It's obvious you guys aren't paying attention to the details in the video.


it's obvious that you didn't read the previous postings:

Searz wrote:

she is also doing many silly things like ignoring facts where it's convenient for her, drawing conclusions where there's not enough evidence backing her up and most importantly she tends to pigeonhole things that don't necessarily fit her assertions.

She's just not somebody I believe you should listen to.



ultimately she loses me at the end by her solution...as it is non-original...typical...and ineffective.

taking a black/white approach or an extremist approach (like the revived tea party conservative movement in the states) just doesn't fly...it becomes biased and fails to see the whole picture.


if you are asserting the idea that we are not 'paying attention' because we dismissed your label of calling her moronic...well i still stand my ground and say she isn't moronic. she is just biased and therefore does not bring her points home so to speak...she does however make some valid points and points out a number of interesting ideas but ultimately her argument is washed out by her bias. similarly to a lot of arguments.

Thanks to jhoijhoi for my signature!

MrCuddowls
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it's obvious that you didn't read the previous postings:





if you are asserting the idea that we are not 'paying attention' because we dismissed your label of calling her moronic...well i still stand my ground and say she isn't moronic. she is just biased and therefore does not bring her points home so to speak...she does however make some valid points and points out a number of interesting ideas but ultimately her argument is washed out by her bias. similarly to a lot of arguments.


UHH no

This women is ****ing crazy and if you watch more of her garbage you will understand why i'm calling her moronic.
GrandmasterD
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MrCuddowls wrote:

OK I'll post the other two videos as well.




So making major ***pulls by cherry picking non existent anti-female concepts in a bunch of games that were made by people who did not have the slightest thought about feminists during the production of the game is somehow a well thought out good point?


"Video games do not exist in a vacuum" is what she states and that part is completely true. Also, viewing this from a designing point of view, it's completely correct. The whole damsel-in-distress-routine gets old and provides an illogical, unrealistic (usually, not always) and paperthin plot.

I don't agree with everything she states; she deals a bit too much in absolutes and some examples aren't good but the whole point still stands. She also states that the designers most likely didn't mean to enforce a sexist concept but just used it because it works.

Seriously, I'd be great if you'd actually watch the videos before you post them rather than just post a video about the topic made by someone you personally hate as you're being more biased than she is.
Bioalchemist
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep August 20, 2013 4:14pm | Report
i don't want to continue a debate on labeling someone moronic with you cudds. i don't want to hurt your feelings.

Thanks to jhoijhoi for my signature!

GrandmasterD
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MrCuddowls wrote:



UHH no

This women is ****ing crazy and if you watch more of her garbage you will understand why i'm calling her moronic.


1) It's about that particular video, other videos made by her are irrelevant to this topic. Even if she'd be a neonazi, that wouldn't mean that this particular video suddenly becomes ridiculous.

2) "This women" ... seriously?
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