A motion control device THAT DOESN'T SUCK...

[quote=Searz]Let's get what I said straight. I said that the Kinect sucked because it has big delays. I said that the Leap Motion seemed promising because it has very little delay. I said that the Leap Motion costs 30$ less than the Kinect. I did not say that the Leap Motion would perform better than the Kinect in games made for the Kinect nor that it should replace the Kinect. I compared 2 products, stating why I thought that one was bad and why the other had potential.[/quote]

[quote=Canoas]Are you comparing the delay? Ok then, but remember that even the crappiest mouses or keyboards have less delay than Leap motion and cost 60$ less, so leap motion sucks really badly. You do not have a proper basis to make any valid comparison. What you're doing is the same as comparing a knife with a fork and saying the fork sucks because it can barely cut anything. Yes, they're both used for eating, so what? That's not a basis for comparison.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Read this again: [quote]I said that the Kinect sucked because it has big delays. I said that the Leap Motion seemed promising because it has very little delay. I compared 2 products, stating why I thought that one was bad and why the other had potential.[/quote] Since you're striking out bigtime it seems I'll have to point out that I consider low delays a requirement for controllers.[/quote]

[quote=Canoas]So? A keyboard has a lower delay and is much cheaper than Leap Motion.[/quote]

[quote=lifebaka][quote=Canoas] It would be nice for commanding armies, but I don't think it'd be useful to build them. Where would your hotkeys be? [/quote] It's a non-issue. Neither of the games I mentioned are real-time. For RTSs, I'd imagine that one would still use a keyboard for hotkeys, and the Leap would replace the mouse for (most) other functions. [quote=Canoas] No, because they serve different purposes while a mouse+keyboard and xbox controller are interchangeable. Some games will be better with one, some will be better with the other. [/quote] I don't think so. There are games that it is simply not possible to play with an Xbox controller, because they require simultaneous access to more actions than the controller has buttons to represent (I'm thinking specifically of ARMA 2, here). The same problem doesn't exist when going the other way, but there are other issues. A lot of games that are designed for the controller and then ported to mouse and keyboard controls tend to suffer from console-itis, the disease where menus and the like are simply not designed with a mouse in mind. Skyrim had a bit of this, and Dark Souls has it so bad that it's almost not possible to play without a controller. (At the start of the game, using keyboard controls, it wants you to press the round, green A button. You can look up the controls, if you can figure out where Start is mapped to and where Y is mapped to. But the instructions for how to play the game, and what buttons to press, will always assume you're using a controller, for the entire game.) Also, Canoas, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi]read this[/url].[/quote]

[quote=Searz][quote=lifebaka] Also, Canoas, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ignoratio_elenchi]read this[/url].[/quote] Thank you. He's been abusing this for ages. I've just sadly been unable to call him out on it.[/quote]

[quote=Canoas][quote=lifebaka] I don't think so. There are games that it is simply not possible to play with an Xbox controller, because they require simultaneous access to more actions than the controller has buttons to represent (I'm thinking specifically of ARMA 2, here).[/quote] But there are other games that are possible to play with either. Super Meat Boy is a good example, you can play it with a keyboard but a controller is better. You can make a valid comparison between the two peripherals when you use a certain function/objective as a basis, but not when you base the comparison on one single quality. Which is better, keyboard or controller? You can't answer, it's not possible if you don't know the purpose. Yes, you can say one as a better delay or more buttons or a joystick or whatever, but you can't say which one is better unless you state what it is better for. Sadly this is such a case, just because one has a bigger delay doesn't mean it sucks, the purpose is simply different. The games the kinect is designed for CANNOT be played using the leap motion. It's not a case of which is better, leap motion would simply not work, it wouldn't capture anything. I'm well aware of numerous fallacies, and neither apply to my argument. A comparison based on delay and price is completely irrelevant as the two controllers do not have the same purpose. It would be valid when comparing a mouse with another mouse, for example, as the purpose is the same, but this is not the case. Searz was comparing two different peripheral devices that serve different purposes and therefore cannot be compared. A good analogy would be comparing a knife with a fork, both are utensils used for eating but have very different purposes so you can't reach any meaningless conclusion. You can say that a knife cuts better than the fork or that the fork is better for lifting food, but you can't claim that the knife is better than the fork or that the fork sucks because it can't cut. Leap Motion and Kinect cannot be compared, the Kinect would fail at doing what the Leap Motion does and the Leap Motion would fail even harder at doing what the Kinect does, just like the fork would fail at cutting and the knife would fail at lifting. If you're going to accuse my arguments of being fallacious make sure you know the fallacy well enough to correctly spot it. Ironically, your post is a good example of the fallacy you tried to pin on me. You claim some games cannot be played with a controller and some games can't be played very well with a mouse+keyboard. That is indeed true, but how is it relevant to the discussion? That does not prove, disprove, strengthen or weaken any argument made by me or Searz. That is not what the discussion is about at all. This discussion is about whether or not the comparison Searz is made and its consequent conclusion that Kinect sucks is a valid one. EDIT: BTW, you can play arma 2 with a controller. You won't be able to assign all the buttons but it is definitely playable. Will you be able to play it well? No, but the number of buttons is irrelevant the moment you try to play a PC FPS with an Xbox controller.[/quote]

[quote=Canoas]On an unrelated note, if they improve the delay on this it would actually be a pretty fun way to play FPS. You need a keyboard for moving and such, but you could "make" a gun with your right hand and use that as the mouse. I imagine it would make things a lot easier though..[/quote]