Dealing with a counter-jungler

[quote=Searz]Nah, you can do it as long as you leash it and keep a teammate in the bush behind. But not if there's an enemy stealther with smite.[/quote]

[quote=Melarith]If you, as the counter-jungler, ward his camp-brush (the one right above him, kindof-ish), it's easy to wait in the brush behind the camp, spell/Smite steal it (ie. Decieve-hit/Smite) to steal it without him being able to do much, assuming you know how much Smite does at your level. After that it's usually rather easy to escape/kill the jungler. A level 1 Ice Blast/Smite from Nunu is enough to snag a buff in most cases. But if you're against someone with limited ranged abilities, like, Warwick, I guess it's not that big of a deal. Not that a Warwick would counter-jungle at level 3, but you get it.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]As I said; it's not that hard to prevent a steal. Unless ofc; you're up against Shaco or some other stealther.[/quote]

[quote=Melarith]Shaco was just an example, but any jungler with a ranged poke makes it a breeze - Amumu's BT/Tantrum/Smite combo usually picks most junglers off-guard, and if not, you can just flash through the dragon/baron cage to safety slightly bruised. Assuming Mumu' would start with boots. I mostly play Nunu tho', so I guess I'll use him as an example, At level 3, Smite does 609 damage to the red/blue buff. If the buff is at 700 health, all you'll need to do is do an additional instant 90-ish damage, not taking your jungler's attacks into account - let's say we attack it when it's at 720 HP, against a Warwick. A level 1 Ice Blast will do exactly 85 damage to Elder Lizard (he has no magic resistance), meaning that 1 Ice Blast done to the buff will lower it to 615 health. If the enemy jungler then also does 1 auto-attack, or an ability, your Smite will typically come out on top. That's a painfully simple example, of course.[/quote]

[quote=wRAthoFVuLK]Wow you both have the same summoner name.[/quote]

[quote=Melarith]Whatwho? Ooooh. Now I gets it. Clever.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]If you ask someone to scout for you or use their CV, you can easily avoid steals.[/quote]

[quote=Melarith]Naturally, if you get caught with a CV, then you might as well just b, there's not much around that - but that forces a CV, at best, or you can force a fight in their jungle if you're confident, either way you won't loose much as the counter-jungler, since the junglers who are able to CJ are usually very apt at recover from the time they've lost. Anyway, since you're playing WW, I'd suggest asking your support to CV @ their wraith camp at 2:25 mark. If they're still there, go and take his wraith/double-golems, because he will likely be taking parts of yours. That is assuming that you've CV'd that they start at blue; some Udyr players start at double-golem, at which point you'd want to CV your Wraiths at 2:05-2:10-ish (don't know the exact timing, but something like that). Use your CV at their Wolf/Blue Buff camps by 1:35-ish, and make sure you can see both camps, since some junglers start out by killing/attacking one wolf, or the entire camp, before moving on to the blue buff.[/quote]