Doran's Ring start on ADC Tristana

[quote=Youngs]It seems like [[DORAN'S RING]] would be a much better start for [[TRISTANA]] compared to [[DORAN'S BLADE]]. [[TRISTANA]] is really good at bursting early game because of the high damage on her abilities. Her AP scaling is very good so [[DORAN'S RING]] would make her burst godly. During engages I usually jump on someone with [[ROCKET JUMP]] and try to burst them down, rather than autoattacking. It's also good for poke because most [[TRISTANA]]s max E so when they have the chance to autoattack for harass they will just use their E instead. It costs 400 gold so the two [[HEALTH POTION]]s you buy make up for the lack of sustain. [[TRISTANA]] is pretty much an AP carry early game and an AD carry lategame which makes her such a good pick. Since you're selling your Doran's item anyway it's not like building AP early will make any difference on [[TRISTANA]]'s lategame. I think this would work best with a support such as [[LEONA]] or [[TARIC]] because they work best for a bursty lane. I'm just wondering why I never see any [[TRISTANA]]s buy this as their first item. Is [[DORAN'S RING]] start a viable choice? tl;dr : abilities > autoattacks early game so unless you have abilities that scale off AD why would you start [[DORAN'S BLADE]]?[/quote]

[quote=sirell][[doran's blade]] is also good for [[tristana]]'s AA harass, since she has a pretty long range, not to mention that a Blade makes it easier to last-hit and pressure towers. I feel that there's some merit to the idea, though.[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod]You get a lot because of how much sustain it gives with lifesteal quints and the lifesteal mastery. On another note, I've been starting [[doran's blade]] on jungle [[elise]] :3[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]It's 15 AP, so with Tristana's scalings if you assume you autoattack three times in an engagement where you use W and E and you autoattack twice for each time you E harass you are already getting more damage from Blade than Ring. It takes 60 autoattacks for a Blade to exceed two potions in sustain, which is easily doable in the course of a normal lane. Also worth noting that champions have higher MR than armour at low levels and you have no mpen, plus it'll make it harder to last hit.[/quote]

[quote=DisturbedFox]can't tell if new to the game or stupid[/quote]

[quote=Thalia Kael]I'd start Blade just so I don't have to be forced to mute my whole team[/quote]

[quote=Youngs][quote=sirell] [[doran's blade]] is also good for [[tristana]]'s AA harass, since she has a pretty long range, not to mention that a Blade makes it easier to last-hit and pressure towers. I feel that there's some merit to the idea, though. [/quote] Her range is fairly average early game. Incase you're mistaken, this is her passive: [[DRAW A BEAD]]. [quote=Luther3000] It's 15 AP, so with Tristana's scalings if you assume you autoattack three times in an engagement where you use W and E and you autoattack twice for each time you E harass you are already getting more damage from Blade than Ring. It takes 60 autoattacks for a Blade to exceed two potions in sustain, which is easily doable in the course of a normal lane. Also worth noting that champions have higher MR than armour at low levels and you have no mpen, plus it'll make it harder to last hit. [/quote] I can't expect [[TRISTANA]] to be able to autoattack twice after [[EXPLOSIVE SHOT]]. [[EXPLOSIVE SHOT]] isn't instant, so that would take the time of ~three autoattacks. In that time you'd be caught by something like [[GRAVES]]' [[BUCKSHOT]] or [[CAITLYN]]'s [[PILTOVER PEACEMAKER]], by champions with much higher base AD and base AS. I prefer to just run away after using E, because it puts you in autoattack range of most carries. I checked your math for the engagements and you're correct, but you're not thinking about level 6. Ranged champions don't have Magic Resist per level so at level 6 MR and Armor breakeven. Here's how many autoattacks it will take to breakeven at level 6, where you use her W, E, and R. x will represent the amount of autottacks, y will represent the damage dealt. I'm not sure if makes any difference but [url=http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/24635852#runes]I'm using my second rune page.[/url] [list] [*]With [[DORAN'S RING]]: y = 79.8x + (0.8*15) + (1.0 * 15) + (1.5*15) [*]With [[DORAN'S BLADE]]: y = 89.8x [*]With [[DORAN'S RING]](Simplified): y = 79.8x + 49.5 [/list] Put this in a calculator or do it in your head and you'll see that they breakeven at x = 5. So you'd actually have to autoattack 5 times during an engage. If the enemy support has any hard CC or disengage this probably won't happen. Anyway, if [[DORAN'S BLADE]] actually is the better early game option then shouldn't AP [[TRISTANA]] Mid's buy [[DORAN'S BLADE]]? And if so, why shouldn't [[ANNIE]] for example start with [[DORAN'S BLADE]]? She has a much higher range than [[TRISTANA]] and worse AP scaling. What I'm trying to say is that when [[DORAN'S BLADE]] became FoTM noone considered how it would work on a champion with 0 AD Scaling.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]She starts with 550 and gets 9 per level, so she does have a slight range advantage even early game over most champs. [[explosive shot]] has a 16 second cooldown. If you can't autoattack twice in 16 seconds you're doing something wrong. You're correct I didn't mention her ult, but level 6 all in is the only place where I can see Ring actually having an advantage. The question is therefore do you really want to bet everything on a level 6 all in that could easily just get [[exhaust]]'d? The big reason people avoid starting Dblade in other lanes is probably the risk due to lack of wards, easy sustain etc. ADs get lifesteal runes and having a support to protect you mitigates the risk. Additionally, in mid lane it's a whole lot easier to go all in on people and you won't just get exhausted. Some AP champions have been known to build [[doran's blade]] though, for example [[kennen]]. I think you're tunneling too much on ability scaling and level 6 all in and not thinking of other factors that matter more in bot lane.[/quote]

[quote=luizdeh][quote=Luther3000] I think you're tunneling too much on ability scaling and level 6 all in and not thinking of other factors that matter more in bot lane. [/quote] Mainly, sustain. LS Quints at low levels heals you back like 3~6 per hit (considering an ADC went full LS quints rofl), less pots means less trades and no [[doran's blade]] means no 5 heal per hit. Try going [[doran's ring]] against a decent [[draven]]. You'll be out of lane in under 2 minutes. But anyways, props for trying something different. Could work on very passive lanes.[/quote]

[quote=Youngs][[TRISTANA]] AA harass isn't strong enough to compel me to buy AD early. A slight advantage in range isn't the only factor. [url=http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_champions'_attack_damage]Her base AD[/url] is low when compared to other carries. Are you used to playing [[CAITLYN]] or [[DRAVEN]]? If you stay in range for two autoattacks on [[TRISTANA]] it's usually going to end in a bad trade, especially versus someone like [[GRAVES]] or [[DRAVEN]]. You [b]can[/b] autoattack twice after using [[EXPLOSIVE SHOT]], but if you stick around for such a long time you're going to take damage. [quote=Luther3000] The question is therefore do you really want to bet everything on a level 6 all in that could easily just get [[exhaust]]'d? [/quote] It's not much of a gamble. The way I see it is that the three ways you deal damage in lane are [list] [*]Harassing/Trading [*]Engages before level 6 [*]Engages after level 6 [/list] Like I said above, trading should be much better with 15 AP than 10 AD. The only thing you're sacrificing is that engages before level 6 are weaker if you can autoattack 3 times. [[DORAN'S RING]] should actually be more appropriate in bot lane than mid however. You mentioned it yourself, all supports run [[EXHAUST]] bot lane. [[EXHAUST]] hurts autoattacking more because with 50% less attack speed, your DPS is multiplied by 0.35, whereas damage from abilities are only multiplied by 0.7. Also, you can't be 100% sure which item is better for sustain. If you're at full health [[DORAN'S BLADE]] won't do anything for you. So at the start of the game where you're at full health and possibly being healed by a support your autoattacks don't count as part of the 60 you need. Infact if you want to survive the first two minutes vs [[DRAVEN]] than [[HEALTH POTION]]s are the way to go, because it will take more than two minutes to reach the full amount of sustain from [[DORAN'S BLADE]].[/quote]