About the pictures, they last one is the most important here, as it calculates your EHP based onto what attacks hit you. This includes HP,Armor,Mr,AS slow, enemy armorpen and magicpen and damage reduction. If you want to find something out, you have to use it yourself.
1. At this stage of the game, you will be no longer solo laning if you aren't splitpushing, as you already bought a 3k
Randuin's Omen, upgraded boots and a minor damage item like The Brutalizer or Hexdrinker. You will be already grouped with your team. And actually, targon's brace offers basically the same stats of a Crystalline Bracer, a compontent of Warmog's Armor. Sure, it costs more, and it is a bit less efficient, but this is worth it if you compare the differnce of Warmog's Armor and face of the mountain, which will grow over the time of the game even more.
2. Your HP is already around level 13 with Randuin's Omen and face of the mountain rather high. Garen for example has at this point 2800 HP. At this point, the shield has a value of 280 HP, means you just have 20 HP less than Warmog's Armor, making the item considering the other benefits superior. Even if the enemy has no % HP. (which kinda makes building it even stronger anyway) And if you can't use the item correctly, well, you should also never use Locket of the Iron Solari, right? Putting it on the target which is actually focused shouldn't be that hard.
3. As stated, you will have at least 1 minor damage item (as long as your damage doesn't scale with HP). So you will be sitting at around 130-140 AD at level 13, which obviously increases later in the game. That amount of damage is still something, better than nothing that Warmog's Armor would offer. Of course, the damage of the item isn't anywhere good, it is just there, making it superior over Warmog's Armor.
And about cost efficiency, even without its passive or active damage part, it is still superior to Warmog's Armor due to CDR and higher amounts of HP, while costing less.
And no, against poke teams they are kinda even, unless you manage to get the super regen of Warmog's Armor. Otherwise, the base regen and passive procs of face of the mountain pretty much equal the 1% of max health regen. And on Garen, it kinda doesn't matter anyway as he has enough regen out of combat already.
See? Even in the perfect situation of Warmog's Armor, face of the mountain still has qualitys there. That is why face of the mountain is generalized the better item of the 2.
1. At this stage of the game, you will be no longer solo laning if you aren't splitpushing, as you already bought a 3k
Randuin's Omen, upgraded boots and a minor damage item like The Brutalizer or Hexdrinker. You will be already grouped with your team. And actually, targon's brace offers basically the same stats of a Crystalline Bracer, a compontent of Warmog's Armor. Sure, it costs more, and it is a bit less efficient, but this is worth it if you compare the differnce of Warmog's Armor and face of the mountain, which will grow over the time of the game even more.2. Your HP is already around level 13 with
Randuin's Omen and face of the mountain rather high. Garen for example has at this point 2800 HP. At this point, the shield has a value of 280 HP, means you just have 20 HP less than Warmog's Armor, making the item considering the other benefits superior. Even if the enemy has no % HP. (which kinda makes building it even stronger anyway) And if you can't use the item correctly, well, you should also never use Locket of the Iron Solari, right? Putting it on the target which is actually focused shouldn't be that hard.3. As stated, you will have at least 1 minor damage item (as long as your damage doesn't scale with HP). So you will be sitting at around 130-140 AD at level 13, which obviously increases later in the game. That amount of damage is still something, better than nothing that
Warmog's Armor would offer. Of course, the damage of the item isn't anywhere good, it is just there, making it superior over Warmog's Armor.And about cost efficiency, even without its passive or active damage part, it is still superior to
Warmog's Armor due to CDR and higher amounts of HP, while costing less.And no, against poke teams they are kinda even, unless you manage to get the super regen of Warmog's Armor. Otherwise, the base regen and passive procs of face of the mountain pretty much equal the 1% of max health regen. And on
Garen, it kinda doesn't matter anyway as he has enough regen out of combat already.See? Even in the perfect situation of
Warmog's Armor, face of the mountain still has qualitys there. That is why face of the mountain is generalized the better item of the 2.
I meant that I didn't understand what you were trying to prove with those pictures. I get that it's a calculator, but I don't see what you're comparing.
1. Last time I checked we were talking about buying it as the second item(third if you count boots), but I'll play along. If you can take an item out of the shop, take another one and can say: "This one costs more but does less on all fronts, and this one costs less and does better on all fronts", then you can say one of the two is cost inefficient with an absolute certainty. There are plenty of situations where this "small" difference is a big one. For example, consider I'm at base and I have 680 gold. Or maybe you could just use the extra 265 gold for something else.
2. You don't have that HP, you can get a shield that lasts 4 seconds once in a minute. WA has two benefits over FotM (higher health regen, higher health(even with the shield up), not including 1. here), and FotM has one over WA, being 10 CDR. I would still consider WA superior here.
Four seconds isn't that much, and you need to think about when to use it with the cooldown in mind. I don't know what the range of the active is but I believe it's not as big as Locket's. And as you pointed out yourself you also need to think of the best target.
3. WA gives 800 HP. FotM gives 500 HP. WA gives epic health regen (which synergizes very well in Garen's case), FotM gives 10 CDR and a shield once in a minute. Whether the item is cost efficient or not in this situation is not really what I meant, I meant that especially targon's brace is very cost inefficient.
If this Garen would be up against a poke comp he probably won't be on his passive.
It's pretty hard to find a situation where an item won't have any qualities.
Maybe we should step back for a minute and realize that FotM already has trouble outweighing WA, meaning that it'll probably have an even harder time outweighing the more used HP + resistance items. Anyway, I'm done. This is taking me too much time and I don't feel like I'll be convinced soon :D
1. Last time I checked we were talking about buying it as the second item(third if you count boots), but I'll play along. If you can take an item out of the shop, take another one and can say: "This one costs more but does less on all fronts, and this one costs less and does better on all fronts", then you can say one of the two is cost inefficient with an absolute certainty. There are plenty of situations where this "small" difference is a big one. For example, consider I'm at base and I have 680 gold. Or maybe you could just use the extra 265 gold for something else.
2. You don't have that HP, you can get a shield that lasts 4 seconds once in a minute. WA has two benefits over FotM (higher health regen, higher health(even with the shield up), not including 1. here), and FotM has one over WA, being 10 CDR. I would still consider WA superior here.
Four seconds isn't that much, and you need to think about when to use it with the cooldown in mind. I don't know what the range of the active is but I believe it's not as big as Locket's. And as you pointed out yourself you also need to think of the best target.
3. WA gives 800 HP. FotM gives 500 HP. WA gives epic health regen (which synergizes very well in
Garen's case), FotM gives 10 CDR and a shield once in a minute. Whether the item is cost efficient or not in this situation is not really what I meant, I meant that especially targon's brace is very cost inefficient.If this
Garen would be up against a poke comp he probably won't be on his passive.It's pretty hard to find a situation where an item won't have any qualities.
Maybe we should step back for a minute and realize that FotM already has trouble outweighing WA, meaning that it'll probably have an even harder time outweighing the more used HP + resistance items. Anyway, I'm done. This is taking me too much time and I don't feel like I'll be convinced soon :D
********'s a pretty good fertilizer
Something that just occurred to me is that Garens W active makes FOTM shield even larger.
As for the FOTM itself there probably isn't an issue as supports only get it as first item for the gold gen as they get no farm and you can potentially go from Kindlegem-FOTM and avoid gold ineffiency completely.
The only issue I can think of is that Warmogs has never been a gold efficient item as far as I know. Is FOTM better than Sunfire/Randuins/any other defensive item?
Are you supposed to get Atmas with it?
Who knows.
As for the FOTM itself there probably isn't an issue as supports only get it as first item for the gold gen as they get no farm and you can potentially go from Kindlegem-FOTM and avoid gold ineffiency completely.
The only issue I can think of is that Warmogs has never been a gold efficient item as far as I know. Is FOTM better than Sunfire/Randuins/any other defensive item?
Are you supposed to get Atmas with it?
Who knows.
Basically MOBAFire.
Atma's does no longer exist, so that reason for Warmog's Armor is gone as well. Randuin's Omen definitly outshines face of the mountain, it is the best defense item in the game and should be your first complete item pretty much every time as long as you don't face a magic damage heavy team. Sunfire Aegis, however, is also a very inefficient item. It offers the same stat type as Randuin's Omen, but way less. The damage since its nerf is also not that great. Finally, it has absolutely no utility. I would say Ohmwrecker -> Sunfire Aegis because of that.
About a pure health item over face of the mountain, well, my build consists of Randuin's Omen and a conditional Thornmail at the end if physical damage is the problem. That makes face of the mountain definitly superior to Sunfire Aegis. Generally stat wise Thornmail -> Sunfire Aegis.
Warmog's Armor is gone as well. Randuin's Omen definitly outshines face of the mountain, it is the best defense item in the game and should be your first complete item pretty much every time as long as you don't face a magic damage heavy team. Sunfire Aegis, however, is also a very inefficient item. It offers the same stat type as Randuin's Omen, but way less. The damage since its nerf is also not that great. Finally, it has absolutely no utility. I would say Ohmwrecker -> Sunfire Aegis because of that.About a pure health item over face of the mountain, well, my build consists of
Randuin's Omen and a conditional Thornmail at the end if physical damage is the problem. That makes face of the mountain definitly superior to Sunfire Aegis. Generally stat wise Thornmail -> Sunfire Aegis.
What about Turbo Chemtank over Face of the Mountain?
Imo it would make more sense on Garen as he both has problems getting to his targets and sticking to them. Granted mana would be a waste on him, but so is the gold sharing passive of Face for the most part.
Turbo Chemtank over Face of the Mountain?Imo it would make more sense on
Garen as he both has problems getting to his targets and sticking to them. Granted mana would be a waste on him, but so is the gold sharing passive of Face for the most part.
If you have any questions, feel free to PM me.
1/2 of the item stats are wasted and it costs more than face of the mountain. I would even say Warmog's Armor or Sunfire Aegis are superior to that.
And about the active, your support/jungler should get it, there you go.
Warmog's Armor or Sunfire Aegis are superior to that.And about the active, your support/jungler should get it, there you go.
No, FotM is stat wise the most cost efficient item of them all with over 90%, Warmog's Armor just has 80%.
Warmog's Armor just has 80%.
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As a side note, I take it we can assume that this website is correct? Never heard of it before.
While I wouldn't like to get too deep in this discussion, I'd like to restate a few things, and would love to hear your response to it (destroy my arguments) rather than new stuff to prove your argument.
1. We're currently only talking about a full-build face of the mountain on a level 18 full HP character with the shield off-cooldown. While you could say
2. The shield lasts 4 seconds, so it takes some effort to use it correctly. It can only be used once in a minute. It also only has a real advantage over "normal" HP if the enemy uses %hp damage. Lastly, it's only a decent item if the max HP is high, which is at level 18 with a full build.
3. We've just stated that it shouldn't be used on a marksman. With your tank build, your AD and AP will be low, so the explosion won't do great amounts of damage, making the item even less cost-efficient.
However I look at it, I can't imagine a situation in which building face of the mountain as a second item is the best choice. Maybe it would be a nice situational pick for the last item, but not for something else. At the full
Also we're starting to talk very generalizing here. Item builds depend a lot on the enemy team too. Against a poke team