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Kass : Archangel or Manamune?

Creator: Thalia Kael
February 25, 2013 8:11pm
24 posts page 1 of 3 Forums » Theory Crafting & Ideation » Kass : Archangel or Manamune?
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Thalia Kael » February 25, 2013 8:11pm | Report
I semi-main Kass mid, and I usually build something like this :

Mercs
RoA
Banshee
Frozen Heart
Rab's
Archangel's

With all that mana I get plenty of AP from my Rab's passive and Arhcangel's, but I was thinking about building Manamune instead for the new upgraded version. It should go well with his W for super auto-attack damage, and the mana gain on his W could help compensate for the mana lost on each attack. I like to build my Kass tanky and Ryze-ish

I'm just scared of losing like 40% of my AP for switching out Archangel's. And if I get rid of Arch, should I just switch out Rab's for like a FroMal or something?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Joshified » February 25, 2013 8:15pm | Report
With Rod of Ages is it really necessary to build the Manamune or Archangel's Staff?
Wouldn't he just prefer more burst like Rabadon's Deathcap or Zhonya's Hourglass?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Thalia Kael » February 25, 2013 8:19pm | Report
Meh, with all the mana, Archangel will easy reach Zhonya's 140 AP, and the Mana/Mana Regen really helps me out since I tend to get max stacks on my ult during chases/teamfights. The shield is also nice. And as for Manamune I'm not sure since I haven't been able to test it out too much yet.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by NicknameMy » February 26, 2013 6:09am | Report
I would take Iceborn Gauntlet instead of Frozen Heart, gives more AP and a nice slow. Also more mana.

Banshee's Veil is meh, I would take Abyssal Mask, another Rod of Ages or Warmog's Armor instead. An offensive option would be Void Staff. You just loose 11 AP from Seraph's Embrace if you don't get it or even win with Rod of Ages/ Void Staff.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by The Overmyynd » February 26, 2013 6:26am | Report
Well, lets look at the pure base facts about the two items.

Seraph's Embrace has the ap per mana passive, as does Muramana and its fairly easy to charge either one by hopping around the map like a demented Nightcrawler. So they are equal in that respect. Now let's look at their passives/actives.

S.E gives you passive AP per max mana, and MM gives you passive AD per max mana. For kass, SE wins. So that's one point for SE.

As for actives, S.E gives you a shield equal to 25% of your current mana (which with the rest of your build is quite frankly ALOT, we are looking at a shield worth at least 500, im too lazy to do maths). That is plenty of time for your ult to come off CD so you can hop out of a bad situation. MM gives you a toggle effect, which lets you consume 3% of your max mana on single target spells or basic attacks to deal an extra 6% in bonus magic damage. You were talking about how well that synergizes with his W, and while it does synergize well, its not really worth it IMO. The AP ratio for his basic attacks with w activated is only .15 (which is gawdawful) so I really don't think that is worth it. As for his other spells, he really only has one other single target ability, his Null Sphere, the rest are AOE which does not proc MM. The reason why this item so damn good on Ryze is that every single one of his abilities are single target, so he just ***** damage all over the place. Kass.... meh, not so much. My vote (looking at base facts, damage, and utility from the actives) is that, as was always the case, Archangel's Staff into Seraph's Embrace is a better choice on him than Manamune into Muramana. Plus SS charges Rabadon's better, meaning more AOE damage from Riftwalk and Force Pulse which is where the vast majority of your damage comes from.

Edit: Don't run AD bruiser kass. Just don't.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by The_Nameless_Bard » February 26, 2013 7:29am | Report
orrrrrrrrrrr you could just go for Zhonya's Hourglass & Abyssal Mask and get Athene's Unholy Grail instead >.>

"OMG STACK DA MANAS" usually just sucks.

Unless you're Ryze. When you're Ryze you can stack da manas.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Pheyniex » February 26, 2013 7:45am | Report
poor Blitzcrank has been forgotten by a nameless person.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by The_Nameless_Bard » February 26, 2013 7:48am | Report
While mana stacking is effective on Blitzcrank, it's not required. It's not entirely required on Singed either.

Ryze' damage scales with mana, so not stacking mana actually makes him pretty much useless.

How is that even related to this thread though?
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by utopus » February 26, 2013 8:14am | Report
Beats me LOL.
Imho, Rod of Ages should solve kass's mana problems for most of the game unless your 'R' key is broken or something.
That means that you can really build stuff that really increase kassadin's damage. The passive from Seraph's Embrace is nice, but more often than not, it's just plain outclass by Zhonya's Hourglass, since that gives armor and a sexy active. Nabbing Zhonya's Hourglass retroactively makes Frozen Heart less useful for you. I think you can replace the FH with Abyssal Mask or something. Maybe a void staff.

Kassadin doesn't REALLY scale with mana. Stacking mana is for ryze, and (soon to be Taric ^^)

Mercury's Treads should be replaced with Sorcerer's Shoes. Lastly, BV isn't totally needed on kassadin. Maybe a Athene's Unholy Grail or something... Kind of up to you haha
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep | Commend by Thalia Kael » February 26, 2013 12:46pm | Report
Hmm forgot about gauntlet, I haven't used him too much since all the new items. But yeah I meant this not for ranked play/serious but for just having fun with using R to go onto someone, use all my kit, and then auto attack them until they either die or I need to escape, and I go out. For that I think i'd go Manamune, Rab's, Zonhya's, Gauntlet, Boots and a situationnal item
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