Teemo Theorycrafting

[quote=Mooninites]so i take it you didnt watch the video, i'll repost it for you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8TjNobQ7jk&feature=plcp[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Basically, the video explains, that against minions, the 2 reduced damage act like 100 armor. If you now think about that you get nearly 100 times hit by minions in the laning phase, then you see, how effective it really is.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=NicknameMy] Basically, the video explains, that against minions, the 2 reduced damage act like 100 armor. If you now think about that you get nearly 100 times hit by minions in the laning phase, then you see, how effective it really is. [/quote] nailed it +rep[/quote]

[quote=Jpikachu1999]I watched the video, what do you take me for? I'm not convinced in the slightest. Considering how non-effective it is mid game, I find it really stupid. I'm assuming that by level 6 (not hard to get to early in a solo lane), many top laners will have around 70 armor. Plus, it does pretty much nothing against champions. Please try to explain in your own words how you think [[Indomitable]] is better than any other mastery in the defense tree. Relying on other people's works, who might have a different play style, just looks extremely lazy to me. He spent about 15 minutes of the video talking about armor at level 1. Look at the armor at, I dunno, level 6 and compare. @NicknameMy Excuse my language, but when the fuck will you take 100 hits from minions over the laning phase? Who the fuck engages so often that you get hit 100 times from minions? If you engage that often, you are gonna miss out on CS, and of course you will take way more damage, simply because you got hit so many times for playing stupidly aggressive. Who are you? [[Garen]]? Oh wait, I simply wait and CS for 30 seconds and have healed up. [[Irelia]]? Oh wait, I just CS and get my health back. Also, you said over the entire course of laning phase. Half way through laning phase, you are gonna be around level 7 or 8. By the end of the laning phase, you are hopefully level 12 or 13. You probably have around 80 armor half way through, and probably have around 100 - 110~ armor all the way through, not counting items. Why the hell does everyone think I've not watched the video? It acts as +100 armor [b]AT LEVEL 1[/b]. Guess what? Level 1 is for pretty much 1 minute after minions spawn. Guess how much armor it acts at level 13? Assuming 100 armor, it acts as ... ta da +18 armor! Considering how diminshing of returns that each armor past, oh I dunno, like 100 gives in terms of reducing damage, that's practically nothing. Plus, once you get to that much armor, minions don't do anything anyways, so it's all champions. Champions don't hit you 100 times. Champions hit you 10 times and wreck you're health. -20 damage is not as good as -200. I'm assuming you are jumping on the bandwagon, because all of the stuff you just said, looks like 0 thought was but into it and just copying from someone else. Finally, no I do not get 100 times by minions during the laning phase. Considering that most bruisers have some sort of sustain, and that many of them don't even attract minion aggro my harassing with skills, I find it very doubtful that anyone would take 100 hit either. Even if they do, there are certain things called health regen and lifesteal.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]Because [[honor guard]], [[vigor]], [[evasion]] and [[mercenary]] are all even more shit. This was calculated before in terms of gold value.[/quote]

[quote=Wollie]Jpikachu1999, I do not agree with you at all. And I think you are being very rude on this friendly forum. But I think [[indomitable]] is a great mastery and I will explain why I think that is. Teemo is one of my main character on toplane. His harrasment consists of auto-attacks. This will draw attention from minions and more often then not, you will get hit by 3-4 minions. [[indomitable]] will save my cute Teemo 6-8 damage every time I harras. Seeing as I tend to harras alot, this will save me alot of damage. The masterie [[though skin]] does wonders for this too. And DoT's become less frightening with [[indomitable]] too. Not by alot, but it's still alot better than most masteries are.[/quote]

[quote=Somalie]Teemo harass with auto attack, he aggro-s the enemy minions and here is that mastery really useful. Not even talking about enemy aa's and skills, 2 is a lot in early levels. JK, that mastery is shit, but defensive tree, despite being a really good tree, has a lot of awful masteries.[/quote]

[quote=Morr33d]How can anybody say Indomitable is shit. Seriously, Indomitable+Tough skin is the sole reason why I even consider specing into Defense tree.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites][quote=Jpikachu1999] I watched the video, what do you take me for? I'm not convinced in the slightest. Considering how non-effective it is mid game, I find it really stupid. [/quote] you rune and mastery according to early game, not mid-game. You can always build items that you need once you're in-game. In all honesty, runes and masteries provide so little stats and utility that reducing minion damage to virtually zero, is huge. Minions can account for a large part of that damage. [quote=Jpikachu1999] Please try to explain in your own words how you think [[Indomitable]] is better than any other mastery in the defense tree. Relying on other people's works, who might have a different play style, just looks extremely lazy to me. [/quote] so everything you've ever done in this game you've just done the math for and figured out the optimal way to play all on your own? get out of here, you've copied other peoples builds, you've copied other peoples masteries, if you think that I'm lazy for watching the video and trying the build out; then I don't know what the hell you are and everyone else is that plays this game who literally copies every pro players build. Very few people figure this out on their own, people who know me know I actually do a lot of math and number crunching on my own. Now am I really an idiot as someone who goes out, researches stuff like this, finds information, watches it, tests it out? And really, can you honestly name better masteries for me? most masteries are hardly even significant at higher levels, even at level 1 they're fairly minor. I've explained below why I think Indomitable is good, how about you now explain why you don't think Indomitable is good and try and find a better place to invest 2 mastery points [quote=Jpikachu1999] when the fuck will you take 100 hits from minions over the laning phase? Who the fuck engages so often that you get hit 100 times from minions? If you engage that often, you are gonna miss out on CS, and of course you will take way more damage [/quote] Well considering a full wave of minions will have 6 or 7 minions it would take 17 waves assuming you only get hit once by minions. 17 full waves spawn by 9 minutes. And since cannons spawn every 3, it's more like 15 or 16 waves before it equals out. That's not factoring in getting hit by minions more than once, enemy champions hitting you, and other sources of damage (such as a jungler gank, jungle creeps, etc.) We'd also have to factor in the times you don't get hit by a full wave which can be fairly often, so let's just say it's somewhere between 15-20. So basically, it only takes 15-20 auto-attacks or abilities to make [[Indomitable]] absorb 100 hits worth of damage. So we can back this up through math, since we determined that it would only take 15-20 trades, I chose the number 17 because it's right in the middle. 17x6=102 (this is due to the 6 minions that spawn). 2x102=204 (this is due to the 2 incoming damage blocked). So just trading with an enemy 17 times you block 204 damage from minions, assuming they only attack you once. That's not even factoring in enemy champion damage or minions that hit you multiple times. Of course this isn't a perfect math because there won't always be a situation in which you get hit by 6 minions every time, but it's also true that there are situations where you'll get hit by more than a minion once. Lot's of wiggle room sure, but I honestly think I'm being pretty generous because chances are if you trade and you don't immediately drop aggro via a bush or running away, you'll get hit 2-3 times by a minion. Good players can harass and hit cs. And no you won't take "way more damage", you have indomitable, you have way more effective armor than the enemy, you will take virtually zero minion damage, unless they are running the same masteries as you they will take more damage should they retaliate.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]Pikachu, have you NEVER frozen your lane as Teemo...?[/quote]