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League of Legends (LoL) Question: DO or DON'T: Picking Kayle as a support?

Posted in Champions | Tags: Kayle 27,904

  • DontSuePplPanda

    DO or DON'T: Picking Kayle as a support?

    Hi guys,

    I've come across a lot of people discussing support champions, and nobody seems to care anymore about a Kayle support. In some cases when I'm playing ranked, I need to pick a support. I have not many options, so if she didn't get banned I take Kayle: the Q-poke is nice, the W-heal+speed is nice for sustain, and ofcourse the ulti is super. Added to that, I won the 4 games I played Kayle-support recently. However, looks like nobody here feels like she's viable as a support anymore? Why is that? And should I get Thresh or Lulu to focus my supporting on?
  • Answers (4)

    GrandmasterD (531) | April 20, 2013 8:40am
    Kayle can support but ain't great at it. If you somehow really really need that ultimate you can go for it but her other skills aren't that amazing for it. She's a niche pick who can be used to counter certain teamcomps such as full burst. The Urgot/Kayle combo used in LCS this week was also very neat.
    Kingluis (8) | April 20, 2013 8:21am
    I think I read a long time ago, that Kayle was made by riot to be a SUPPORT.

    Then people decided to play her with other builds and it looked like it was better.

    Let me see what happened the same with.... Twisted Fate, Gragas? Twisted Fate was made ad in season 1, then people deciced to play ap! (I still play ad, my main). While Gragas was meant to be an AD Tank, but people decided to try ap, and was brilliant!

    So... why not ?
    PsiGuard (1495) | April 9, 2013 8:28pm
    I'd have to say no. Thresh has one of the best support kits in the game right now (I'd say the best, honestly) and Lulu is also one of the top competitive picks. Kayle has a number of weaknesses including unintentional wave-pushing (with E autos), no hard CC and a very, very weak heal even compared to other heal supports. The ult is great, but it's generally better to have a Kayle on the team somewhere else and put a stronger support in lane with the ADC. Other than her ultimate, Kayle doesn't offer much as a support and is more item dependent than supports are supposed to be.
    Kingluis (8) | April 20, 2013 8:22am
    Only because Thresh is the best, doesn't mean he is the only viable, remember that.
    tehAsian (247) | April 9, 2013 11:10am
    Yes Kayle is a decent support.

    She has extremely high damage output at early levels, coupled with an AD that has decent burst you're able to destroy a LOT of laners early on.

    She also scales really well with CDR, a core stat for supports.

    Her %-Armor Shred is really strong in a 'Shred' team comp.

    Ultimate is godlike for protecting carries like Vayne or Kog. This is a huge advantage over any other support, for several reasons.

    1. It completely mitigates damage.
    Compare it with Lulu ult or Soraka heals. Wild Growth's health boost cannot be mitigated by Ignite, and is a pretty big amount, and it adds in self peel and a knockup so it can even be used on an initiator for CC. However, against overwhelming burst (say late game Zed) that couple hundred health + peel is going to be useless. Soraka's heals are mitigated by Ignite.

    Now take Kayle ult. You have completely nullified that Zed's damage for 3 seconds, which can potentially be 2000 damage (your carry's health), AFTER resistances. That is MORE valuable that any Lulu ult or Soraka ult.

    2. Instant cast time and huge range.
    Because clutch situations. Near 1000 range is a pretty long way.

    Now, why is Kayle a viable support?
    Ult is good.
    Strong early game, which can really set up opportunities for your ADC to get ahead.
    Scales relatively well without items.
    Diverse item build. Builds can be cheap or expensive, but literally anything is effective on Kayle.

    Which honestly isn't a bad package for a support. Certainly better than support Pantheon :p But now bad enough to say Kayle Support isn't viable.
    tehAsian (247) | April 9, 2013 7:06pm
    Your point is that she isn't viable.

    Being only decent =/= not viable. Being only decent = there are better choices, but this pick is viable.

    I never stated that her pre 6 lane is 'decent.' That was a point you brought on yourself. And again, this isn't about which supports are better, this question is about if Support Kayle is viable.

    200 mana for a standard combo when you have a 1000 mana pool is high? Have you seen, I don't know, Corki? What about Nami? Graves? 1/5 of your mana for a combo is relatively low. Not to mention you shouldn't be spamming everything everytime it's up.
    Nighthawk (684) | April 9, 2013 6:58pm
    Everything you're saying is that she's decent, which is only proving my point more :P

    Most viable adc's (besides Graves and Sivir) have more range than Kayle, soo?

    I'm not saying her ult is bad, it's very good. But you won't see those situations a whole lot in Solo Queue, which I'm at least decently sure is what the author is talking about. I haven't actually seen her in competitive play either, although judging by the nerfs coming up she must have been played somewhere lol.

    Lots of lanes are decided pre that means that as an only decent pre 6 laner, it would be better to go with a better pre 6 laner like leona, by that logic, right?

    Sorry, you're right, 200 mana for a standard combo you'll be spamming on someone with less then 1000 mana isn't a lot.
    tehAsian (247) | April 9, 2013 4:17pm
    "range is to short"
    You're supposed to peel for your ADC, who has more or less the same range you do. Also, you should never stand behind them anyway, so that point is invalid.

    "her heal is useless"
    Maybe, but the speed buff is decent

    "her ult STILL doesn't contribute enough to make her viable"
    Which is why pros don't use her in tournaments at all, right? Her ult is ridiculous, imagine a Vayne or Kog who cannot be bursted for 3 seconds. Now imagine a competent team who can get people off them in those 3 seconds, meaning they'll have free reign over a team fight.

    "her lanephase is only decent pre 6"
    Lots of lanes are decided pre-6.

    "her mana costs are very high"
    Nighthawk (684) | April 9, 2013 3:28pm
    she isn't a viable support, her range is to short, her heal is useless and her ult STILL doesn't contribute enough to make her viable. her lanephase is only decent pre 6 and her mana costs are very high.

    Comment has been deleted

    Aseafy (25) | April 9, 2013 6:48pm
    You didn't even mention that kayle has insane base stats and that she can do crazy damage with just a haunting guise and nashnors, these are really the only reasons people would play kayle support, to stomp the laning plase with your early game damage.

    but instead, you focus on her abilities utility. By using your type of analysis, support elise would be pretty useless, but she's ridiculously strong at the moment
    Meiyjhe (539) | April 9, 2013 11:20am
    Well, in comparison to other supports, she is less, thus is not something adviced to do. If it is not a do, then it is a don't :D

    Maybe I had put my answer a bit vague...
    tehAsian (247) | April 9, 2013 11:11am
    "Kayle support is a don't :P"

    Implies Kayle support is a no.

    Not to mention the reasons you stated why don't make any sense.
    Meiyjhe (539) | April 9, 2013 11:04am
    I never said Kayle is a useelss support D:

    I only said that others were better D:
    tehAsian (247) | April 9, 2013 10:34am
    What the hell Meiyjhe

    Her most supportlike ability is her Ult, and it has a stupid short cool down. It goes down to 24 seconds, which in prolonged fights 6 seconds of invincibility. That is a LOT.

    Also, what does an ability have to have to consider it to be a 'support' spell? Does it have to save your carry? Does it heal them? Buff them? CC enemy carries? Etc. In a very loose definition, every single ability can be used 'supportively'.

    W is a pretty strong speed boost imho. It DOES save you a lot of times.

    As for comparing Lulu to Kayle, Kayle's ult has the potential to mitigate infinite damage. Furthermore, just because one support (supposedly, also with flawed logic) outclasses another doesn't mean that the 'outclassed' support is useless.

    Compare Taric and Leona. With your logic, Leona has a better Armor buff, twice as many stuns, twice as long engage range, and more burst and therefore is a superior pick to Taric and Taric is useless. That isn't the case, however. Posting an answer on why support Kayle works brb.
    OTGBionicArm (415) | April 9, 2013 9:28am
    Basically you CAN support with Kayle, but just about every other support like Taric and Sona outdoes anything she does as a support. Only unique and good thing she really brings to the table is her ult, and that isn't enough to have a **** support in lane with you. Take her mid/top.
    Satella (177) | April 9, 2013 9:26am
    Kayle does much better with farm than without, and there are supports with far better CC for the early game.
    Meiyjhe (539) | April 9, 2013 8:20am
    any time ;D
    DontSuePplPanda (6) | April 9, 2013 7:55am
    Fair enough. I must say, in my opinion, still she's not that bad if you play the poking game. Especially with a Chalice of Harmony. BUT! BUT! I will try to play some other supports, see how that works out :) Thanks!
    Meiyjhe (539) | April 9, 2013 4:38am
    Also this :P
    DKitten (78) | April 9, 2013 4:14am
    It pretty much comes down to "too much damage; too long CDs". I'd classify her with Lux, Morgana, and Orianna as supports; they've got plenty of utility, but their damage potential is really good, making them "team fight mages" instead of true supports.
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