How much AP should you get before buying...

[quote=H4xDefender]you can sit on revolver if you have the right setup and need more damage. runes/masteries + visage + ionians (and blue if nobody needs it i guess) will get you to 40% cdr[/quote]

[quote=ThePreserver]I used to build [[Will of the Ancients]] first, but since the tank meta it doesn't really suit me in my build. I like how if someone even -slightly- shys away from the meta and calls it viable people have GMD's reaction. I mean, for me half of the game is experimentation which leads to things being meta anyway. Try before you buy. Inb4 someone actually gets the thread back on topic with something relevant to the OP's question.[/quote]

[quote=NicknameMy]I always see Vlad's building [[Will of the Ancients]] first and then [[spirit visage]] and be totally unkillable as they heal for infinite health. And after that [[zhonya's hourglass]]. Last 2 are [[rabadon's deathcap]] and [[luden's echo]].[/quote]

[quote=DisturbedFox][quote=NicknameMy]BTW: Isn't the first item on Vlad [[will of the ancients]] anyway?[/quote] yes which is why all of this vlad build discussion is massive aids, especially the thornmail part[/quote]

[quote=oreosauce]Rabadan's is usually a good second item since it scales very well. Its passive counts all ability power obtained in any way, meaning the AP from your runes/masteries, items BEFORE Rabadan's and AFTER Rabadan's is counted into the 35% passive. It gives you a faster power boost. Buying Rabadan's late just delays your power spike. The only time you put off buying it is if you're behind. It's usually better to go for a Zhonyas or Luden's and then get Rabadan's[/quote]

[quote=Ekki][quote=ThePreserver]I like how if someone even -slightly- shys away from the meta and calls it viable people have GMD's reaction. I mean, for me half of the game is experimentation which leads to things being meta anyway. Try before you buy. [/quote] I agree, and I'm against the anti-meta hate, but sometimes, you're just doing suboptimal stuff. You can do the math on rushing a rabs first item vs building AP+other stats before and see that one might always be better. On the vlad discussion, because it can be somewhat on-topic. Say you had NLR+Wisp and 2250 gold (enough to rush rabs). If you bought luden's+another NLR you'd have +70 AP, +5% movspeed, a passive that hits for 100+10% AP and 100 gold to spare. Otherwise buying rabs you get +60 AP and +35% AP. If you only had rabs+wisp those 35% would add +52.5 AP, let's say +55 if you had some extra AP from vlad's passive (from 100 extra HP). Then you'd have to compare +45 AP of rabs (and +63 hp in vlad's case) vs +5% movspeed and luden's passive, which at ~160 AP would deal 116 extra AoE damage. I guess that can be math'd too, with vlad's AP ratios and cooldowns to see how many luden damage/spell damage you deal to compare with ratios. Luden's+NLR still seems like the best choice, because of luden's base damage, but I'll admit that vlad is one of those champions that can build rabs earlier than most due to his innate AP from passive. *edited the math because I failed a bit. [quote=ThePreserver]Inb4 someone actually gets the thread back on topic with something relevant to the OP's question.[/quote] I second this. So, you'll have to see when is the turning point for each champion. The turning point would be the moment when rabs' bonus AP is better than the passives/actives from other items, and it's often after at least one item, because plain AP isn't of much use for most champions early on. I say 4th item on average. Champions that can get it earlier (2nd item tops) are innate AP champions ([[galio]], [[veigar]], [[vladimir]], IDK if anyone else), high-scaling AP nukes that would add more damage by their scaling alone than by other passive/active (I can only think of [[veigar]] here) or, the last I can think of, supports that can transform their AP into healing/utility ([[janna]], [[soraka]], ?[[lulu]]?). This would make them too weak, so it's often adviced to have other item's utility beforehand anyways. Champions that shouldn't get it earlier would be badly AP scaling champions, champions that NEED the actives/passives from other items to survive early ([[veigar]] is here if you started losing) or champions that won't buy too many AP items anyways, as plain AP is good but passives like luden's already give more damage (with those 100 base damage) and they always have secondary stats (movspeed from luden's, armor from zhonyas, etc).[/quote]

[quote=MungoGeri]I did some calculations for [[zyra]] and [[ziggs]], and it turned out that [[void staff]] was a better early pickup than [[rabadon's deathcap]], even if the enemy had less than 50 MR. Remember, [[void staff]] multiplies the power of base magic damage, while [[rabadon's deathcap]] does not. However, [[void staff]] only multiplies damage. My general advice is if your playing a nearly pure damage Mage, then [[void staff]] will be better. If you're playing a mage with utility spells (e.g. shields), then [[rabadon's deathcap]] might be better.[/quote]

[quote=pan0u]Without considering champions, the MOST effectiv for buy [[rabadon's deathcap]] is to have 300 AP. 100 AP BUY [[Rabadon's deathcap]] => 297 AP => +77 AP PASSIV 150 AP BUY [[Rabadon's deathcap]] => 364.5 AP => +94 AP PASSIV 200 AP BUY [[Rabadon's deathcap]] => 432 AP => +112 AP PASSIV 250 AP BUY [[Rabadon's deathcap]] => 499.5 AP => 129.5 AP PASSIV 300 AP BUY [[Rabadon's deathcap]] => 594 AP => +174 AP PASSIV 350 AP BUY [[Rabadon's deathcap]] => 634.5 AP => +164.5 AP PASSIV 400 AP BUY [[Rabadon's deathcap]] => 702 AP => +182 AP PASSIV 450 AP BUY [[Rabadon's deathcap]] => 769.5 AP => +199.5 AP PASSIV Difference each AP Cap : 100 AP to 150 AP : +17.5 AP 150 AP to 200 AP : +17.5 AP 200 AP to 250 AP : +17.5 AP 250 AP to 300 AP : +44.5 AP 300 AP to 350 AP : -10 AP 350 AP to 400 AP : +17.5 AP 400 AP to 450 AP : +17.5 AP In conclusin, the MOST gain is 300 AP and the WORST gain is 350 AP. Enjoy it =) Read and Follow my Guide + Theory Crafting : http://www.lolking.net/guides/356391 http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/diana-100-carry-jungle-mid-patch-5-15-429402[/quote]

[quote=Ekki][quote=pan0u]100 AP to 150 AP : +17.5 AP 150 AP to 200 AP : +17.5 AP 200 AP to 250 AP : +17.5 AP 250 AP to 300 AP : +44.5 AP 300 AP to 350 AP : -10 AP 350 AP to 400 AP : +17.5 AP 400 AP to 450 AP : +17.5 AP[/quote]That looks like a miscalculation popped up between 250 and 350 AP. Rabs adds .35 total AP, so it should have linear growth for every 50 AP interval, like what is seen for every interval except for those 2 :P[/quote]

[quote=pan0u]You right x) 300 AP BUY Rabadon's Deathcap => 594 AP => +174 AP PASSIV => 147 AP PASSIV So gain 17.5 AP for all cap x) So there is no better cap. Depending on which Champ...[/quote]