Vapora Dark wrote:
You just described the super advanced competitive lane swap though, not lane swap style that you'd do with inexperienced, disorganized teams.
That's the point. You don't want to laneswap with inexperienced, disorganized teams. It leads to clown fiestas. You either have to coordinate the basics, or you stay away from it.
Vynertje wrote:
I'd suggest that's just because you're so much better than the rest, + you actually know how it's done.
Yeah it's partly true, like I often finish lane swaps with higher CS than the enemy ADC just because I last-hit better, I assume. Still, I would therefore think it is indeed possible and often optimal to lane swap in solo Q, provided you know how to actually do it.
I could explain it but I only know it from an ADC's perspective.
Then exactly what do you think differs in disorganized lane swaps compared to the competitive lane swap that vynnie described?
Does laning phase last longer? Do towers stay up longer?
Does laning phase last longer? Do towers stay up longer?
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From what I've seen in pro play, the way lane swaps have evolved is that the competitive lane swap is basically PVE, while the less organized solo Q lane swaps are PVP 2v1 lanes. In competitive play the jungler and top lane double jungle then join the ADC and support to take down the tower just as the minion wave is hitting the tower (the duo starts freezes to build up the minion wave as big as possible rather than start pushing right away), so they can take it down in pretty much 1 push I think. This is better than the solo Q lane swap because if you do that and the enemy team doesn't do it, you can 4v1 dive the top laner for a free first blood when the wave hits the tower, and you'd still get the tower 4v0, and bot lane would go back to the actual bot lane to defend the tower in a standard 2v2, having a team global gold advantage from the first blood and tower, and the enemy top laner would have no safe way to farm unless he can freeze the wave at his inner tower, as he has no outer tower to protect him.
But in solo Q it's just too disorganized to set up that kind of lane swap. Sure, I know more or less how to do that, but I don't have enough time to teach my jungler and top lane to do it, nor would I trust them to get it right on the first go after having only heard the theory. In solo Q you just go top to 2v1 the enemy top laner, with the option to cheese him from the lane brush in good ol' season 1 style before he realizes he's laning against 2 people, and you'd freeze the wave to deny him CS, and focus on doing as much damage to the tower as possible when the wave gets big and pushes into the enemy tower.
But in solo Q it's just too disorganized to set up that kind of lane swap. Sure, I know more or less how to do that, but I don't have enough time to teach my jungler and top lane to do it, nor would I trust them to get it right on the first go after having only heard the theory. In solo Q you just go top to 2v1 the enemy top laner, with the option to cheese him from the lane brush in good ol' season 1 style before he realizes he's laning against 2 people, and you'd freeze the wave to deny him CS, and focus on doing as much damage to the tower as possible when the wave gets big and pushes into the enemy tower.
I remember from a recent inhouse game that it was incredibly easy to coordinate a 3v1/4v1 dive and abuse the enemy trying to lane 1v2, even without voice comms (Levas didn't have headset). We got caught off-guard by the laneswap (it was the game where zed went bot and you/morg went mid) but I just messaged levas to come dive after his first three camps and it was super easy to execute, even without the top laner joining. We got fb+tower while you didn't get anything, just through chat communication.
Mostly when I try telling our jungler to come dive around that time they just ignore me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The dives themselves aren't the part that need the most coordination anyway, it's the whole getting your top laner to double jungle with your jungler for 2-3 camps then coming top to help with the tower dive. But as the enemy team won't be doing that either it's not a big deal, it just means you won't have the advantage of getting a free first blood on the enemy top laner while yours is completely safe from dives by roaming with your jungler.
If you can get your jungler to dive while doing the solo Q lane swap, then it's better than no dive at all, but it's not always in your hands. Sometimes junglers will come dive of their own accord, sometimes you can get them to come if you ask them to, others they'll opt to afk farm jungle or gank other lanes even if you ask them to come dive for a free'ish kill.
The dives themselves aren't the part that need the most coordination anyway, it's the whole getting your top laner to double jungle with your jungler for 2-3 camps then coming top to help with the tower dive. But as the enemy team won't be doing that either it's not a big deal, it just means you won't have the advantage of getting a free first blood on the enemy top laner while yours is completely safe from dives by roaming with your jungler.
If you can get your jungler to dive while doing the solo Q lane swap, then it's better than no dive at all, but it's not always in your hands. Sometimes junglers will come dive of their own accord, sometimes you can get them to come if you ask them to, others they'll opt to afk farm jungle or gank other lanes even if you ask them to come dive for a free'ish kill.
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