MR Reduction + M.Pen Teemo idea

[quote=Tuxedo Vaile]Hello everyone, we've all seen AP [[Teemo]] before and we've also seen M.Pen [[Teemo]] as well but there's a build idea that I've been thinking about more in tune with the latter build that I haven't really seen before. That build would be an M.Pen build that also uses [[Wit's End]] and [[Abyssal Scepter]] to really bypass those resistances. Is there a reason people don't do this though? Wouldn't [[Wit's End]] and [[Abyssal Scepter]] synergize really well with items like [[Void Staff]], [[Liandry's Torment]], and [[Sorcerer's Shoes]] on someone like [[Teemo]]? I mean most M.Pen builds will get [[Abyssal Scepter]] sure, but on someone like [[Teemo]] who's got plenty of Magic damage on his AA's why not add a [[Wit's End]] to the mix and increase the damage output you have by that much more with it? All over Lolking and Mobafire here I haven't really found this type of M.Pen build on him yet. I can only imagine that there's a reason for that though. Could anyone perhaps enlighten my novice mind? Personally I would think it to be a bit strong but I also haven't tested it yet either because I'm not sure what build order should be prioritized when possible and I want to master [[Teemo]] a bit better anyways before trying out such an aggressive and potentially risky build. Anyways, thank you for your time and input in advance! :D[/quote]

[quote=Ekki]Now this has a lot more of cohesion than the full shred idea. It's still not optimal, but optimal is boring, so who cares? It's also quite neat that there are 5 different magic penetration (or reduction, or whatever) items. 30 flat penetration, 10-25 (scaling on level?) aura reduction, up to 25 shred and a 35% penetration means you will be dealing [u]true damage[/u] to targets with: - 46 mr outside of abyssal range - 84 mr inside max reduction abyssal or outside abyssal but fully shredded by [[wit's end]] - 123 mr with everything capped That said, just dealing true damage means nothing if your base damage is too low. So my last item in that build would be a [[rabadon's deathcap]]. And I'm guessing the reason why people don't stack all that magic penetration is because after reducing someone's mr to 0 there is no point in further reducing it (it doesn't go to negative values, it may go with [[wit's end]] but I'm not sure). After some amount of MPen you're better off increasing your AP to deal more damage to squishies.[/quote]

[quote=Latest Legend][[abyssal scepter]] may reduce below 0 if I'm not mistaken. Is its range big enough for [[teemo]] though? Are enemies at max AA range in range of the passive? Don't forget you're also dealing a lot of damage using shrooms by the way, which may very well be out of range of the passive.[/quote]

[quote=Ekki][quote=Latest Legend][[abyssal scepter]] may reduce below 0 if I'm not mistaken.[/quote]It reduces the MR but then your penetration is less effective (i.e. 30 penetration against 20 mr is the same as having 20 penetration). [quote=Latest Legend]Is its range big enough for [[teemo]] though? Are enemies at max AA range in range of the passive? Don't forget you're also dealing a lot of damage using shrooms by the way, which may very well be out of range of the passive.[/quote]It has 700 range, which is more than [[caitlyn]]'s 650 aa range iirc. And yes, shrooms mostly won't be affected by abyssal reduction, but a build with [[wit's end]] might benefit from it.[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu][quote=Ekki][quote=Latest Legend][[abyssal scepter]] may reduce below 0 if I'm not mistaken.[/quote]It reduces the MR but then your penetration is less effective (i.e. 30 penetration against 20 mr is the same as having 20 penetration). [quote=Latest Legend]Is its range big enough for [[teemo]] though? Are enemies at max AA range in range of the passive? Don't forget you're also dealing a lot of damage using shrooms by the way, which may very well be out of range of the passive.[/quote]It has 700 range, which is more than [[caitlyn]]'s 650 aa range iirc. And yes, shrooms mostly won't be affected by abyssal reduction, but a build with [[wit's end]] might benefit from it.[/quote] Reduction before penetration http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2929417&page=4#post32707861[/quote]

[quote=Ekki][quote=Janitsu]Reduction before penetration http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=2929417&page=4#post32707861[/quote]Sooo, basically what I said. [[abyssal scepter]] reduces your mr to, say, (x-25), because reduction acts first. Then if (x-25) is lower than 30 your 30 penetration will be as effective as (x-25) penetration.[/quote]

[quote=Janitsu]but it's worth it omg !![/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]One weakness of this build is that some of your pen (Wit's, Abyssal) doesn't apply to your shrooms unless you happen to be fighting the person who gets hit by the shroom. Usually heavy AP builds are designed to make your shrooms hurt like crazy and force people to recall to base. [[Wit's End]] seems decent on him, but at that point you might as well switch to a more split-push oriented build.[/quote]

[quote=Nightwalker1]This build could work, but i would say you might need to refine it. Personally, i wouldn't take void staff unless against mr stacking champs. Rabadons would be the best option or another as item. Up to you.[/quote]

[quote=PsiGuard]Old thread, locking.[/quote]