And in the humble opinion of Admiral_Munson, all the best Thresh players in the world have it wrong?

Oooooohhh you have a Thresh guide? That explains why you downvoted a guide made by someone who spends more time bot lane at a higher level of play. Now it makes sense.

Oh **** yeah that's true, I hadn't even thought about that. Just another small thing making Revitalize a viable option on Thresh even though he's the last thing you would consider a healing or shielding support.

Well what else is left then? I could tell you why I think E max is better but if you've read the guide and you know the pros of maxing E you've already simply discarded the benefits as being worse than the benefits of maxing Q, and me re-iterating it isn't going to make you change your mind. I could link you to probuilds where almost every pro puts minimum 3 points into E before maxing Q, but you probably already know that and you just think they're wrong.

If even a statistic showing that E max wins more games than Q max doesn't change your opinion then I don't know what you expect me to do, replying at all seems like a waste of time.



If you're spamming your Q off cooldown, yes, but I don't know what kind of enemies you're playing against that walk into hook range every 10 seconds.

Also by 15 minutes laning phase should be over and you'd stop maxing E anyway, so you should have 2-3 points in it anyhow, so it wouldn't be on a 20 second cooldown. Maxing Q from the get-go would get it on a 2-4 second lower CD than if you'd started off maxing E, and that's hardly going to make such a huge difference mid-game that it'll make up for your weaker laning phase from maxing Q in lane.



If you're tunneling too hard on CDR then yes, you can, but that doesn't mean you should. The proper way to build Thresh is something like my guide describes, and you can verify this by watching any Thresh in pro play, where in this instance the Thresh sticks to 10% CDR until 30 minutes in. And how much does his lack of CDR limit his play? It doesn't really have much of any effect, because if you're throwing your hook the very second it comes off cooldown every single time you're either doing something worng, or your enemies are so bad for getting hit by it every time that it doesn't matter what you build.



If it were just me you disagreed with that'd be something, but this is the entire competitive Thresh scene you're disagreeing with, the best Thresh players in the world whose opinions you're disregarding as wrong. Even if I agreed with you, you'd still 99% likely be wrong, and so would I.



Yes but the thing you have to keep in mind here is that this is its winrate even being dragged down by people that take it without Guardian, and without rushing face of the mountain, and possibly without even building Locket of the Iron Solari.

Obviously not every Thresh does this, but some inevitably do, and that tanks Revitalize's winrate; the fact that it still shows up better than Second Wind in some Elos and super close behind it in others just goes to show how it most likely is better if you are running the right setup + build to use it properly. If you were going Aftershock then it wouldn't make as much sense and if for some reason you were rushing 40% CDR rather than building Locket then it would just be bad.

Also, for real dude... "A tiny difference in winrate isn't very significant imo". When it shows that at the very least it is a viable alternative to Second Wind, even if it doesn't prove it to be 100% straight up better, it is very significant indeed. It's the difference between you downvoting me because I'm running something bad, and you downvoting me over something that's personal preference. How is statistical proof that they're really close together in power not relevant here? It has to have a massively higher winrate for my choice in running it to be justified?


Also for the record, E max isn't about the slow on E like you seem to think it is, it's a lot more to do with the fact that it straight up does more damage in lane than Q max, and on top of that it's a lot more reliable damage since it's basically impossible to miss Flay (or auto-attacks). Even the best Thresh players can't predict where the enemy will try to juke the hook with 100% accuracy, meaning if you engage a fight and miss hook then all the extra damage you should've been gaining through levels isn't going to apply in that particular fight, whereas the same doesn't happen with Flay unless you colossally mess it up (and even then you still have the auto-attacks).

The statistics proved that it's stupid to downvote a guide for using the choice that's the best no matter how close it is, exactly what my point was.

And even then, the winrates are also way closer than they should be because they're taken from games that reach level 18, at which point what spell you maxed in laning phase has very little effect on what the outcome of the game is going to be at that point, which is why even maxing Q last which is awful is pretty close in winrate. The winrates don't make sense at all if you don't bear that in mind, 63% winrate just for maxing your spells in the right order would be absurd.



You're not in team-fights when you're maxing Q though, you're in laning phase where you're only going to land one hook per fight. That's why it's normal on Thresh to put points in E then switch over to Q max either after you have 3 points in E, or after you finish laning phase, which is what my guide advises. Straight up maxing Q during the stage where Q is Thresh's weakest spell between the available options (not counting W as an option) is stupid.


Every point of criticism he made was wrong. The only point that any high Elo/pro player might possibly agree with is that Revitalize isn't as good as Second Wind, which is a tiny flaw even if it's true, and statistics show it to be a better option than Second Wind if you have a lot of shielding through Guardian, face of the mountain and Locket of the Iron Solari, so I'm standing by it as an optimal rune on Thresh even though it hasn't caught on among most of the playerbase yet.

And of course I'm not saying 40% CDR is bad on Thresh, depending on how the game goes I may build 40% CDR through items or I may not, it depends what items I need, but you build depending on what you need, not on what items give you the CDR necessary to hit the cap and which not. Claiming Thresh needs to hit full CDR is just plain wrong.