This build has been archived and is for historical display only
This build has been archived by the author. They are no longer supporting nor updating this build and it may have become outdated. As such, voting and commenting have been disabled and it no longer appears in regular search results.
We recommend you take a look at this author's other builds.
x
x
Did this guide help you? If so please give them a vote or leave a comment.
You can even win prizes by doing so!
Vote
Comment
I liked this Guide
I didn't like this Guide
Thank You!
Your votes and comments encourage our guide authors to continue
creating helpful guides for the League of Legends community.
Anyway great guide as ever but for the rune there is a problem as you put at first : Guardian, Font of life, Bone plating, Unfliching, Perfect timing and Biscuit delivery. But in the detailed section it is : Aftershock, bone plating, conditioning, overgrowth, cosmic insight and biscuit delivery. Maybe i miss other things but i think it's the main problem ^^
Just have a question : Why do you not use the THREATS & SYNERGIES ? Is it because you don't like it, it's too little for the mass of information ... or because why not xD ?
Well Thanks again and have a nice day :)
Yeah it's too little for the mass of information, and for the most part threats & synergies look almost the same for every champion. Strong laners are tough to lane against, weak laners are easy to lane against. It's highly repetitive.
Comment has been deleted
Comment has been deleted
And in the humble opinion of Admiral_Munson, all the best Thresh players in the world have it wrong?
Probably because as far as supports go, Thresh isn't one of the most CDR reliant since hooking/flaying a tank isn't really that useful, while supports like Janna/ Lulu directly increase their ADC's damage and survivability with lower cooldowns, and even despite this fact, I still get 30% CDR while one of the items that doesn't give CDR is Ruby Sightstone which is unskippable and the other is Locket of the Iron Solari which is also completely core and unreplaceable, and I'm not going to cater my entire build from the start of the game to "must aim towards 40% CDR in case this game goes to 50 minutes and I end up reaching full build"?
Leveling Q probably won't work for people who are just bad at landing it (you have this low cooldown ability you can't land but you're also stuck with a flay with 20% slow) but it works extremely well if you can. As you know, the cooldown is reduced by an additional 3 seconds if you land it, even on a minion. It is also much harder cc than flay as it is also a 1.5 second stun and you can travel to wherever someone has flashed or e'd ( Ezreal) if you take it late enough.
No doubt, I'm sure you know that combo'ing hook with flay, lantern, and the box makes for some sick plays. It's harder to do that when Q is still on 20 second cooldown (assuming no CDR) 15 minutes in.
"I'm not going to cater my entire build from the start of the game to "must aim towards 40% CDR in case this game goes to 50 minutes and I end up reaching full build"?"
I realize you are being sarcastic but you can get 40% cdr, often by 20 minutes and sometimes less (i.e. by building coin) and it is very useful. Thresh's hook is central to his kit and not landing it or not being able to frequently throw/land it does make things a lot more difficult in terms of peel and securing kills. I do not agree when you say that Thresh is not cdr reliant. He is all about cdr, in my humble opinion.
As for your statistic for revitalize, a tiny difference in winrate isn't very significant imo and varies from one elo to the next. Second wind is still very good for in-lane sustain and playmaking. Revitalize is only good if you've got a bunch of shield/heal based actives, as you said yourself. I'll try guardian in my games and see if it makes a difference, however (since aftershock isn't effective unless I'm on top of the enemy adc -- which may or may not be dangerous depending on who I'm laning against).
Well what else is left then? I could tell you why I think E max is better but if you've read the guide and you know the pros of maxing E you've already simply discarded the benefits as being worse than the benefits of maxing Q, and me re-iterating it isn't going to make you change your mind. I could link you to probuilds where almost every pro puts minimum 3 points into E before maxing Q, but you probably already know that and you just think they're wrong.
If even a statistic showing that E max wins more games than Q max doesn't change your opinion then I don't know what you expect me to do, replying at all seems like a waste of time.
If you're spamming your Q off cooldown, yes, but I don't know what kind of enemies you're playing against that walk into hook range every 10 seconds.
Also by 15 minutes laning phase should be over and you'd stop maxing E anyway, so you should have 2-3 points in it anyhow, so it wouldn't be on a 20 second cooldown. Maxing Q from the get-go would get it on a 2-4 second lower CD than if you'd started off maxing E, and that's hardly going to make such a huge difference mid-game that it'll make up for your weaker laning phase from maxing Q in lane.
If you're tunneling too hard on CDR then yes, you can, but that doesn't mean you should. The proper way to build Thresh is something like my guide describes, and you can verify this by watching any Thresh in pro play, where in this instance the Thresh sticks to 10% CDR until 30 minutes in. And how much does his lack of CDR limit his play? It doesn't really have much of any effect, because if you're throwing your hook the very second it comes off cooldown every single time you're either doing something worng, or your enemies are so bad for getting hit by it every time that it doesn't matter what you build.
If it were just me you disagreed with that'd be something, but this is the entire competitive Thresh scene you're disagreeing with, the best Thresh players in the world whose opinions you're disregarding as wrong. Even if I agreed with you, you'd still 99% likely be wrong, and so would I.
Yes but the thing you have to keep in mind here is that this is its winrate even being dragged down by people that take it without Guardian, and without rushing face of the mountain, and possibly without even building Locket of the Iron Solari.
Obviously not every Thresh does this, but some inevitably do, and that tanks Revitalize's winrate; the fact that it still shows up better than Second Wind in some Elos and super close behind it in others just goes to show how it most likely is better if you are running the right setup + build to use it properly. If you were going Aftershock then it wouldn't make as much sense and if for some reason you were rushing 40% CDR rather than building Locket then it would just be bad.
Also, for real dude... "A tiny difference in winrate isn't very significant imo". When it shows that at the very least it is a viable alternative to Second Wind, even if it doesn't prove it to be 100% straight up better, it is very significant indeed. It's the difference between you downvoting me because I'm running something bad, and you downvoting me over something that's personal preference. How is statistical proof that they're really close together in power not relevant here? It has to have a massively higher winrate for my choice in running it to be justified?
Also for the record, E max isn't about the slow on E like you seem to think it is, it's a lot more to do with the fact that it straight up does more damage in lane than Q max, and on top of that it's a lot more reliable damage since it's basically impossible to miss Flay (or auto-attacks). Even the best Thresh players can't predict where the enemy will try to juke the hook with 100% accuracy, meaning if you engage a fight and miss hook then all the extra damage you should've been gaining through levels isn't going to apply in that particular fight, whereas the same doesn't happen with Flay unless you colossally mess it up (and even then you still have the auto-attacks).
The statistics proved that it's stupid to downvote a guide for using the choice that's the best no matter how close it is, exactly what my point was.
And even then, the winrates are also way closer than they should be because they're taken from games that reach level 18, at which point what spell you maxed in laning phase has very little effect on what the outcome of the game is going to be at that point, which is why even maxing Q last which is awful is pretty close in winrate. The winrates don't make sense at all if you don't bear that in mind, 63% winrate just for maxing your spells in the right order would be absurd.
You're not in team-fights when you're maxing Q though, you're in laning phase where you're only going to land one hook per fight. That's why it's normal on Thresh to put points in E then switch over to Q max either after you have 3 points in E, or after you finish laning phase, which is what my guide advises. Straight up maxing Q during the stage where Q is Thresh's weakest spell between the available options (not counting W as an option) is stupid.
Every point of criticism he made was wrong. The only point that any high Elo/pro player might possibly agree with is that Revitalize isn't as good as Second Wind, which is a tiny flaw even if it's true, and statistics show it to be a better option than Second Wind if you have a lot of shielding through Guardian, face of the mountain and Locket of the Iron Solari, so I'm standing by it as an optimal rune on Thresh even though it hasn't caught on among most of the playerbase yet.
And of course I'm not saying 40% CDR is bad on Thresh, depending on how the game goes I may build 40% CDR through items or I may not, it depends what items I need, but you build depending on what you need, not on what items give you the CDR necessary to hit the cap and which not. Claiming Thresh needs to hit full CDR is just plain wrong.
Why do you ask people for feedback after voting when you browbeat them in the comments section if it isn't full of agreement & adoration?
Thresh's hook is his strongest spell. It is what his kit is all about. Perhaps I might be stupid for thinking that but it's worked out well for me and many Thresh mains. I find it difficult to respect your opinion when you have so little respect for the opinions of others.
Yes, but it's a bit of a one-point wonder in lane in the sense that you're never going to be able to cast it twice in a single fight until around level 7-9 or so, if even then. It's the most important part of his kit, but it's not the one that benefits the most from levels during laning phase, that award goes to Flay for having the highest and most reliable damage.
Someone points out that something I said is wrong, provides me with evidence of it such as pointing out that no pro builds what I build? I will happily fix the issue and try not to repeat similar mistakes in future guides. Someone points out that they disagree with the way Thresh is played and built by high Elo players and pro players alike, and their opinion is right because they've played him a lot? What am I meant to do with that "feedback"? "Oh **** some silver player just said me and every reputable Thresh player have the champion all wrong, ****, need to re-think my entire guide's setup in light of this news."
All I can do in these situations is try and throw mountains of evidence at you and hope you realize how silly you look saying things that contradict everything pros and high Elo players do on Thresh, but 99% of the time the downvoter in question is too stubborn and I'm just ****ed and have to accept the downvote. I can't remember the last time anyone was willing to admit they were wrong and that pro players know better than them when they downvote my 100% meta guides.
I don't write these guides based on my personal opinion and playtesting, I write them based on the opinions and playtesting of the best players in the world. It's entirely possible for me to misinterpret things sometimes or to fail to notice something I should have included, but it's pretty hard to argue that the entire guides are fundamentally wrong when they're based entirely on how the champion is played at the highest level, not on how my opinion says they should be played.
I have greater respect for others' opinions than I do my own. But you are not one of those 'others', you're just someone who's completely contradicting those 'others'. Forgive me if I find it a little hard to take that opinion seriously.