CAC 1 - Part 3d - Skillset Concept Discussion 2

[quote=Jebus McAzn]In this thread, we will discuss ideas for the skillset of this champion. Remember, community, the skills are the single most important part of the champion, and it's important that we get this part right! CAC 1 is a ranged DPS champion. After looking at the winners of the last poll, I realize that people may have minor objections and fixes to propose to the skill sets. Therefore this thread will be to discuss the three winners of the last poll and to make any last-minute changes in preparation for the poll that will decide the skillset template for this champion. In short, criticize the submissions and say what you think should be changed about him - it is up to the concept author's discretion to re-send their final submissions. One of the three concepts listed below will be the final skillset concept for CAC 1. Our concept is [b]Jet's Anti-Support Debuffer.[/b] [quote=Jet]o hey im having a go at this Name: Anti-Support, Debuff, DPS General Description: A squishy DPS damage dealer that synergises with team support and is designed to work with on hit effects to cripple the enemy team and their support, through applying mass debuffs to the enemy that affect positioning and regeneration. Justification: We have 4 strong support champions (Janna, Taric, Shen and Alistar) that once they get itemised, along with good player skill, they are almost impossible to take down while they provide excellent advantages for their team. This would allow for new team compositions, such as Carry/Mage/Support/Tank/Anti-Support which could bring otherwise neglected champions back into viability, such as Kayle, Sona, Soraka, Nasus, etc, by allowing them to have their undervalued effects on level with the enemy's output. This would bring some use to the useless items we currently have (by useless, I mean you cannot compare them to other items, such as Nashor's Tooth, Executioner's Calling, Malady). Additionally, bringing new compositions and stronger debuffing presence would be a strong counter to the current metagame of Tanky-DPS, and would allow for new metagames to be balanced around having a strong balanced composition than having a team full of powerhouses with one strong tank and one support babysitting entire teams. Explanation: With this champion you would be able to pick on their team forcing their support to waste skills undoing what you just did to that enemy, debuff them making them more vulnerable to your team's damage output and allow yourself, as this debuffing DPS, to make laning, harassment and solo fighting much more effective for your entire team. Since you're going to be using auto-attacks to apply debuffs, as well as skills, on-hit items would synergise extremely well with this champion, allowing for more varied builds depending on what you need to counter and what your team would benefit the most from debuffing.[/quote] The winners of the previous poll were: [i]Note - Entries have been slightly modified to be removed of specifics.[/i] [quote=Mowen]Passive: Increases damage dealt to feared, silenced, and poisoned champions. Q: CAC1's next auto attack deals damage and increases the duration of fears, silences, and poisons. W: CAC1's next auto attack poisons an enemy champion. Any nearby enemy champions that get near the poisoned champion before the duration is up are poisoned as well. E: CAC1 blinks to target location. If CAC1 lands on an opposing champion that champion is feared. R: CAC1 aims a shot that silences the target. once the duration is over it jumps between enemy champions, increasing the silence duration for every target it jumps to. If there is not an allied champion in range, the shot dissipates and deals damage.[/quote] [quote=Trojan995]Passive: CAC1 is immune to knock-ups and other uncleansable crowd control abilities. Q: Passive: CAC1 deals extra damage and silences the enemy every (x)th attack, . Active: CAC1 launches a projectile that deals damage and silences the enemy. W: CAC1 tethers enemy champion. If enemy champion leaves the range of the tether, the enemy is slowed (significantly) and (other CC?). E: CAC1 inflicts damage over time and a debuff upon the enemy for (medium-long) duration. If the enemy is healed within the extent of the debuff, 50% of the heal is instead given to CAC1. R: CAC1 fears (or some type of CC) target enemy for (very short) duration. If, after the duration of the fear, (x) amount of enemy champions are nearby target enemy, the fear is renewed. Max (x) seconds.[/quote] [quote=Read]Passive - All Buffs/Heals are X less effective for Y seconds upon being hit by this champs spells or AA Q - Release a time delayed blast dealing X damage - Lowers AD/AP of an enemy by Y for Z seconds and spreads it to nearby allies dividing it % wise (3 allies 33%, etc.) W - Passive: All CC and Debuff's duration are increased by X% per Y enemy champions - Active: steals X% of the enemys heals or buffs (This includes Lifesteal and Spellvamp). HP stolen is converted into mana. Excess mana becomes HP. E - Deals X damage per level +%AP and fears the target for X seconds - If another target is Y distance away the fear jumps to them as well as lowering their MR by X * number of jumps - Max Jumps per level Z (I would suggest 1/2/3/4/4 without being able to hit a target twice) R - Drops a Totem in an area - Enemy champs within X distance take Y magic damage - Enemy champs within X distance are tethered to the totem and cannot move more than Y distance from it for Z seconds - Enemies tethered are affected by darkness like Noc's ult[/quote] Stating here again: Criticize, praise, discuss the sets for CAC 1 and say what you think is well done and what should be fixed.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]Out of those 3, I like Trojan's best. I think he needs a better passive however (only janna has a knockup as a support) and that doesn't help with debuffing either. However I do think 2 silences and a fear are a bit OP, nearly ever champion relies on spells for some part, even the Master Yi with 5 PD's. Silences can't be undone and it's really more then a form of Debuff, more like a form of CC. Mowen's idea is more in line with the original post by Jet imo, but atm it seems extaordinarily OP. Two poison skills (aka Cass) a blink AND a fear all in one (how much more annoying would teemo be with a blink and a fear?) and a silence that completely decimates teamfights and ruins any chance of their mage taking out your AD Carry. so tl;dr basically imo what we need to do is tone back all the CC this guy is getting (fears, silences etc) and think about how much this guy impacts teamfights and solo.[/quote]

[quote=Mastarwe]I do agree that Trojan probably has a skillset that shouldn't be too hard to balance and implement. The passive is however a bit strange (hard to explain in what way). I think the Q-ability also would be easier to balance without it's passive part, since silence is extremely potent. E is something I like. If it would affect lifesteal/spellvamp then it wouldn't be too bad if no healer was nearby either, since a lot of champions do like the use of these. On Mowen's skillset: I do think that the passive is pretty good. When thinking about the Q I'm wondering if it's ment to leave a buff making the target more vulnerable to cc for a duration, or if it's just making the effects already on the champion longer. A ranged carry with a blink would be extremely powerful, which would make the blink a long cooldown spell if it would be balanced (IMO). Also the ult would be extremely powerful, however if it can be balanced it would reward the player that knows when to use it. On Read's set: Passive is a thing that a lot of people suggested in some way (not a bad thing at all). However the Q (delayed blast) is something that fits more for a mage/nuke (karthus and cass are the ones using it now) then for a ranged dps. Also to me the E would be more fitting as an ult then as a normal ability, since ult's are more spectacular. Only my view right now.[/quote]

[quote=ShadowReign757]Mowen's is CC heavy, and the Q is a little overkill. But, with some toning down and maybe remove the fear aspect of her E and it should be pretty good. Trojan's also seems the same way, only a bit less. Removing the passive effect of Q should reduce it enough. Read's seems a bit confusing, but maybe that's just me. The ult seems like it has too many components to it, but again, maybe it's just me.[/quote]

[quote=EvilDice]Trojan's is my favorite however as others have said, the passive seems kinda out of place. On his E the tether would need to have a relatively long range(or be VERY short) to not be really easy to abuse. I do really like this idea of using the tether the opposite way, instead of having something happen after "x" seconds. Mowen's kit just seems to have a bit too much CC and the passive seems kinda like a waste. You could just buff the champion's base stats. I absolutely LOVE reads ult. Pretty unique but it also seems like it may be an ult more suited on a tanky champion. The tether range again would have to be relatively long or the tether time relatively short. I don't really think the darkness aspect is necessary, however. All of these kits have one ability that spreads or does something based on how many enemies are nearby. Quite honestly I don't really like this, though I think Read's bouncing fear seems like the best concept. Could also use a little better explanation on Trojan and Mowen's ults as I'm not quite sure how they work.[/quote]

[quote=TehGus]My favorite is Trojan's, except for the passive. Needs change, needs change. It's so irrational. The rest is really fine, he figured out the way to not exaggerate but still stay in the theme. After interpreting Mowen's set a bit further I sorta like it, except for the gap closer - it's a freaking ranged DPS champion that already has too much CC. Why add such a strong gap closer, that also CCs the enemy? Also his Q feels like it isn't a decent skill. Broken, maybe? I don't know how to explain the feeling. I didn't like Read's kit, other than the ultimate. It has various design flaws I've mentioned in other threads, and buff stealing is flawed because it would be either random or all buffs currently placed, and can you imagine buff stealing in LoL? I mean, what is that? I'm going to steal your shield. Now I'm going to steal an aura! Trynd's ultimate! Your AS steroid! ?? I think it would work in another game, but not in LoL. I am terrible at explaining things, sorry.[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]TehGus has a very good critique of Mowen's set - the question is a ranged DPS champ. If she has that much CC, including a blink that can fear, it's a bit too powerful. Regarding Trojan's, I agree that the passive is a little out of place. Of the three sets, though, I think that his set is the best suited toward a ranged DPS champ. Read's set is a little all over the place. The W in particular is quite strong - consider that a tank can get up to 300 bonus AR/MR from items and runes and other things, and if even 25% of that was stolen, your ranged DPS now has 75 more AR/MR. The W seems more like an all-around anti-carry, anti-tank tool and placed on a ranged DPS champ, is slightly overpowered.[/quote]

[quote=Trojan995]Just to clarify, because people don't seem to like the passive: Alistar has a knock-up, Blitzcrank has a knock-up, Janna has a knock-up, Janna has a push, Alistar has a push, Blitzcrank has a pull, Gragas has a push. I thought this champion might go well with Cleanse because CC is much of what controls the game, and an easy way to counter cleanse is to take champions with uncleansable CC's (or pushes/pulls?) That's just my thoughts on the passive, if it makes any difference.[/quote]

[quote=TehGus][quote=Trojan995] Just to clarify, because people don't seem to like the passive: Alistar has a knock-up, Blitzcrank has a knock-up, Janna has a knock-up, Janna has a push, Alistar has a push, Blitzcrank has a pull, Gragas has a push. I thought this champion might go well with Cleanse because CC is much of what controls the game, and an easy way to counter cleanse is to take champions with uncleansable CC's (or pushes/pulls?) That's just my thoughts on the passive, if it makes any difference. [/quote] Yeah, we know. But still, it feels out of place and it probably doesn't fit this champion. How about a passive like the one I suggested for my kit? Short stealth or speed boost when too many enemy champions are nearby?[/quote]

[quote=HuntrKilr]i dislike that the best idea we came up with (buff stealing) didnt end up in the final kits[/quote]