Xin Zhao - Three Talon Strike vs. Audacious Charge

[quote=Jebus McAzn]Last hitting is substantially easier with TTS than with Charge.[/quote]

[quote=EvilDice][quote=Jebus McAzn] Because you won't necessarily be spamming AC so much in fights as you will TTS. With Battle Cry active, your chain-knockup is almost a suppress given that you have enough CDR and AS, which is why many Xin Zhao players build Ghostblade/Sword of the Divine or some variant as their core items. [/quote] The thing is, TTS has a static 10 second cooldown whereas at level 5 Charge is at 12 seconds. Rather than(not taking any cdr into account) having a 10 second CD knock up and a 16 second CD 20% slow, you could have a 10 second CD knock up and a 12 second CD 40% slow and achieve pretty much the same damage output (plus Charge is aoe). The chain knockup/suppress on TTS can be achieved at level 1. [quote=Searz] The mana cost is higher on Charge. That's one reason. [/quote] Yea, that's probably the best reason :P[/quote]

[quote=Hamduden][quote=EvilDice] Guys, guys, guys. Why the hell would you ever max his Q first? I am using mobafire's database here and trusting it is correct :P At level 5, TTS does 225 damage IF you land all 3 hits. At level 5, Charge does 230 damage right away. TTS has a 10 second cooldown at all levels. Charge has a cooldown that scales with level. TTS has a knock up that is the same at all levels. Charge has a slow that scales with level. TTS isn't aoe. Charge is. So why exactly would you max Q? [/quote] Don't we forget that TTS scales with AD? So when you have lvl 5 TTS it's not just 225, but 225 + (3*AD), right? Or am I missing something, even though I play Xin almost every day? x) (I'm tired :p)[/quote]

[quote=EvilDice]It adds bonus damage to his autoattacks. We are talking about the bonus damage here.[/quote]

[quote=Nighthawk]I would go with TTS first. I love AC, but the knockup from TTS is to good not to pass up. Depends mainly on who your playing and what you are trying to accomplish though, imo. Also, how would you be able to supress on level 1 with TTS? :o[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]You can't suppress on level 1. The argument that the knockup from TTS is great is still a moot argument because the CD and the knockup duration on TTS remains constant at all ranks, which is the primary argument toward leveling Charge first.[/quote]

[quote=Kirluu]I only find E to be usefull depending on your laning partner. If you're with another heavy physical dps, and then depending on their cc, you might want to take Q if your laning partner is something like trynda(No stun or anything), and if you have Sion or something, then you can just use E, since he has the stun, and you can jump at them and damage them. However, since Q deals a lot more damage, I'd usually go with it rather than E.[/quote]

[quote=Atarios]E gives you enough slow to complete your TTS, at lvl 1,[/quote]

[quote=Kirluu][quote=EvilDice] Guys, guys, guys. Why the hell would you ever max his Q first? I am using mobafire's database here and trusting it is correct :P At level 5, TTS does 225 damage IF you land all 3 hits. At level 5, Charge does 230 damage right away. TTS has a 10 second cooldown at all levels. Charge has a cooldown that scales with level. TTS has a knock up that is the same at all levels. Charge has a slow that scales with level. TTS isn't aoe. Charge is. So why exactly would you max Q? [/quote] ^Not this. This math isn't viable, since if you look at Xin's TTS, it damages his Attack Damage at each hit AND the 225 damage you mention. And thus, it does deal more damage. True, AC is instant, but AC in low lvl is still good enough to close the gap, for you then to be able to use TTS to knock them up possibly killing them. I know this can be done the other way around, but lvling AC first, you get a better slow, but you're going to knock them into the air anyway, right? All the time the enemy is in the air the slow isn't in effect anyway. So as I said earlier: TTS > AC[/quote]

[quote=Atarios][quote=Kirluu] [quote=EvilDice] Guys, guys, guys. Why the hell would you ever max his Q first? I am using mobafire's database here and trusting it is correct :P At level 5, TTS does 225 damage IF you land all 3 hits. At level 5, Charge does 230 damage right away. TTS has a 10 second cooldown at all levels. Charge has a cooldown that scales with level. TTS has a knock up that is the same at all levels. Charge has a slow that scales with level. TTS isn't aoe. Charge is. So why exactly would you max Q? [/quote] ^Not this. This math isn't viable, since if you look at Xin's TTS, it damages his Attack Damage at each hit AND the 225 damage you mention. And thus, it does deal more damage. True, AC is instant, but AC in low lvl is still good enough to close the gap, for you then to be able to use TTS to knock them up possibly killing them. I know this can be done the other way around, but lvling AC first, you get a better slow, but you're going to knock them into the air anyway, right? All the time the enemy is in the air the slow isn't in effect anyway. So as I said earlier: TTS > AC [/quote] That is so true ^[/quote]