Twisted Fate - When did he go up the Tier?

[quote=VoiD][quote=Rudmed] Rift Walk, oh and they are nerfing destiny. [/quote] At least TF has a W that is useful.[/quote]

[quote=Rudmed]Though wait a minute...if his W stacks better with AD...then we should build him AD? No, there are other better ranged carries/assassins (according to Jun). Well then if hybrid is too expensive what about AP? No, Wild cards are not homing, and do less damage then most mage abillties that are homing/more accurate. Seriously if your going AP TF go pick Kass, Malz, Viegar, Lux, or some other AP character. So what made him so useful [[destiny]] well now that is getting nerfed....why should we play him? Because we like him, and that is about it.[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn]Wild Cards are actually a surprisingly effective method of farming and Pick a Card makes it so that you never run out of mana. With Pick a Card, Lich Bane, and a decent amount of AP, TF becomes an extremely potent tower pusher and tower killer.[/quote]

[quote=VoiD][quote=Jebus McAzn] Wild Cards are actually a surprisingly effective method of farming and Pick a Card makes it so that you never run out of mana. With Pick a Card, Lich Bane, and a decent amount of AP, TF becomes an extremely potent tower pusher and tower killer. [/quote] [color=violet]^This. What I said but not in so well mannered way of saying it.[/color][/quote]

[quote=Rudmed]1. Wild Cards= equals farm...got it. 2. Pick a Card + Lichbane + decent amount of AP= effective tower killer. 3. Enemy has teleport= problem. 4. Destiny nerf= problem. 5. AP TF being forced to get Lich Bane + decent amount of AP = problem. 1. Okay so you farm up some gold and get some good items, but lets say the enemy gets a banshee veil. Oooh hard counter, so now you have to waste some of your burst to get it down or your stun. Also if your identifed as a source of damage, expect not to get away if you can't stun anyone. 2. This is true I have seen it. 3. Its gonna be hard to push a tower when there is an enemy teleporting there and you have to wait on two procs in order to do any real damage to it. 4. This will make your backdooring/ pushing methods so much more predictable its not even funny, oh and waiting on two procs. 5. Yes you maybe able to farm well, but lets think about it this way. Lich bane= 3k gold....Rabadon's = 3k. So yeah if that is what you mean by decent AP you go have fun farming up 6k gold with wild cards, but hey if any teamfights happen you'll be there thanks to destiny....oh wait. Well atleast your wild cards are good at farming....oh wait this is a teamfight we're talking about.[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn][quote=Rudmed]1. Okay so you farm up some gold and get some good items, but lets say the enemy gets a banshee veil. Oooh hard counter, so now you have to waste some of your burst to get it down or your stun. Also if your identifed as a source of damage, expect not to get away if you can't stun anyone.[/quote] You can almost always count on your teammates to pop veils. If not, your Wild Cards are still only on a 5 second cooldown and is still a supremely useful poking skill. [quote=Rudmed]3. Its gonna be hard to push a tower when there is an enemy teleporting there and you have to wait on two procs in order to do any real damage to it.[/quote] If you force an enemy to pop teleport any time you go near a tower, you've done enough to make it useful while wasting nothing but your time - their lack of teleport forces them to stick with their team and stops them from split pushing. [quote=Rudmed]4. This will make your backdooring/ pushing methods so much more predictable its not even funny, oh and waiting on two procs.[/quote] So what if they predict it? When Shen split pushes, people know it's coming. They know that he'll push a lane solo so that he can just ult to his team when the fights start. Can they do anything about it? Not really. [quote=Rudmed]5. Yes you maybe able to farm well, but lets think about it this way. Lich bane= 3k gold....Rabadon's = 3k. So yeah if that is what you mean by decent AP you go have fun farming up 6k gold with wild cards, but hey if any teamfights happen you'll be there thanks to destiny....oh wait. Well at least your wild cards are good at farming....oh wait this is a teamfight we're talking about. [/quote] That pretty much holds true for any character. A tanky core is, for example, Aegis+Randuin's+Banshee's. An AD carry's core is perhaps Infinity Edge+Last Whisper. Other AP carries might run Rod of Ages+Archangel's Staff. Regardless they're all around 6k gold for a core build. Twisted Fate is an exceptional farmer and never goes mana hungry, and his passive gives him extra gold anyway, so that's not really an issue. He deals quite a large amount of burst despite what you may think. 300 damage Lich Bane procs 30 minutes in game hurt quite a bit.[/quote]

[quote=VoiD][quote=Rudmed] 1. Wild Cards= equals farm...got it. 2. Pick a Card + Lichbane + decent amount of AP= effective tower killer. 3. Enemy has teleport= problem. 4. Destiny nerf= problem. 5. AP TF being forced to get Lich Bane + decent amount of AP = problem. 1. Okay so you farm up some gold and get some good items, but lets say the enemy gets a banshee veil. Oooh hard counter, so now you have to waste some of your burst to get it down or your stun. Also if your identifed as a source of damage, expect not to get away if you can't stun anyone. 2. This is true I have seen it. 3. Its gonna be hard to push a tower when there is an enemy teleporting there and you have to wait on two procs in order to do any real damage to it. 4. This will make your backdooring/ pushing methods so much more predictable its not even funny, oh and waiting on two procs. 5. Yes you maybe able to farm well, but lets think about it this way. Lich bane= 3k gold....Rabadon's = 3k. So yeah if that is what you mean by decent AP you go have fun farming up 6k gold with wild cards, but hey if any teamfights happen you'll be there thanks to destiny....oh wait. Well atleast your wild cards are good at farming....oh wait this is a teamfight we're talking about. [/quote] [color=violet]1. Great poking/stealing tool. As well as nice chunk of damage. 2. Agreed, and also nice chunk of damage 3. Partially true. Make them waste their teleport with your teleport, if it stops you go other lane with destiny. Also, one less annoying flash/exhaust your team has to deal with. 4. Agreed, the nerf is gonna hurt TF badly. 5. SotD = 2k, Last Whisper 2k, and IE 4k. But, Lich Bane and Rabaddon is just way better than those listed items for AD, also less gold.[/color][/quote]

[quote=Trojan995]I think it's when split pushing and map control became so damn powerful. That, or Reginald plays AP TF extensively in high ELO and in competitions, so he must be giving TF lots of publicity. Still, 90% of people play him AD QQ.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Rudmed] Though wait a minute...if his W stacks better with AD...then we should build him AD?[/quote] Just because his Red Card scales with AD doesn't mean AD has any synergy. 1. Pick A Card is now 100% magic damage. Unless you're packing Lich Bane (lol if AD with Lich Bane), you won't be dealing any physical damage with Red Card. 2. What kind of lame brain is using Red Card in a team fight? Gold Card's far more important for at least 99% situations. Last 1% I leave open to stuff I can't think of. [quote=Rudmed] Well then if hybrid is too expensive what about AP? No, Wild cards are not homing, and do less damage then most mage abillties that are homing/more accurate. Seriously if your going AP TF go pick Kass, Malz, Viegar, Lux, or some other AP character.[/quote] Twisted Fate is a bit retarded in all departments, I'll admit. He can't dps as well as DPS, he can't nuke like a nuke. But unlike most other mages, he can harass from a long distance every few seconds with a fairly balanced solid skill shot. It's his bread-and-butter to be be able to last-hit from 1000+ distance away, AND harass at the same time if you're good at zoning. He's bit like Vlad, except no where near as sustainable or easy to play. A bit of a Mini-nuke Caster. (I want to say DPS Caster, but it doesn't sound right) AP TF wins can taking out solid chunks over time. Not gradual enough to be DPS, but not fast enough to be a nuker. My belief is that AP maximizes Twisted Fate's potential contributions more then AD. So, whether there's a better caster or beter ranged-carry, IF you want to play Twisted Fate, you should be playing AP. After all, Destiny is the most fun and satisfying skill in the game. :P [quote=Rudmed]So what made him so useful [[destiny]] well now that is getting nerfed....why should we play him? Because we like him, and that is about it.[/quote] Just saying "Destiny's getting nerfed" is a half-truth that makes you a half-scrub. :P Phreak's statement says they will be buffing him in compensation. Though, from Riot's recent reworks, their liable to overnerf Destiny, and underbuff Q/W/E. But yuh, good chance the de-global'ing of Gate will mean R.I.P. for what Twisted Fate had going for him.[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]lol, im thinking someone beat him with tf so he got bumped up. tier lists are usually just opinions anyway.[/quote]