Starting Items on Junglers

[quote=Jebus McAzn]Some theorycrafting about which items to start with on the stronger, sustained junglers. For example, Warwick either starts with Cloth Armor+pots+ward OR Long Sword+health pot, the latter of which is faster. But he can also start with a ton of different other items. The reason he usually starts with a Long Sword is that his jungle is too slow otherwise. Nunu starts with just about anything. Boots+Pot+Ward is standard. He can start with anything, really. I created this thread to discuss the viability of a new start on these junglers. Stonewall has been experimenting with a Regrowth Pendant start, doing Wolves-Wraiths-small Golems, and then recalling and buying Philo Stone at roughly 3 minutes in on most junglers. Another possible start is very similar - start with a Ruby Crystal and simply rush Heart of Gold. Discuss?[/quote]

[quote=EvilDice]I saw the regrowth pendant start on rammus by kobe24, and clg ended up winning the game so I would say it worked out :)[/quote]

[quote=theBMB]I don't know why people say ww jungles too slowly with cloth armor, I run cloth armor+two pots and I make it through the jungle in about 4 minutes, with at least 75% health the whole time. As for starting options, ruby crystal is definitely an option for jungle tanks like amumu who are rushing HoG or Aegis, but vampiric scepter is also an option. WW can probably complete the jungle with boots too, so that would be an interesting thing to try out. Anyone ever try just using one of the 4 minute pots? Prefereably the red or green one. Of course this comes with the downside of not having any items to start with, but the slight gold (ie not using all of the starting 475) advantage might be able to make it work[/quote]

[quote=Bernarnar]I think Cloth+5 is coming out as a weaker start for junglers now. Whilst keeping them at full HP, spending all of that gold on Pots makes for getting your Wriggles / boots a lot slower, which is why Junglers that can will start with that Vamp Scepter. You spend less gold on keeping healthy. IIRC Even Amumu can start with a mana crystal and 2 Pots, which I would turn into a catalyst personally. Being able to start with boots is a HUGE advantage for Nunu, because of the mobility from W and the fact that thanks to Ice Ball he will win most AA-exchanges. Also it leaves cash for a ward, which we all know are great. Cho comes to mind as someone who can start with a Ruby Crystal, but he doesn't seem to be a common Jungler. I think the ability to start without 5 pots is based on who can steroid and/or heal themselves the most, Hence WarWix, lee sin, trundle, etc. This is something interesting to research, actually.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Regrowth Pendant is a good start on a few tanky junglers. Most junglers I play are best with Vamp scepter though.[/quote]

[quote=Jebus McAzn][quote=theBMB] I don't know why people say ww jungles too slowly with cloth armor, I run cloth armor+two pots and I make it through the jungle in about 4 minutes, with at least 75% health the whole time.[/quote] 4 minutes still isn't a good time for a jungler. Even with Long Sword, Warwick is still slow. Consider that Udyr can clear his jungle in 3:30. [quote=TheBMB]Anyone ever try just using one of the 4 minute pots? Prefereably the red or green one. Of course this comes with the downside of not having any items to start with, but the slight gold (ie not using all of the starting 475) advantage might be able to make it work [/quote] It's not a gold advantage; you don't have any jump start on your Wriggle's or your GP10 item after you clear your jungle. Most elixirs wear off after 4 minutes meaning that most junglers will have a one minute window in which they can successfully gank with their potion up, assuming they use it as soon as blue spawns. Stonewall is vehemently against elixirs when jungling and I won't bother to explain - his reasoning is up everywhere.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]It's either Cloth+pots or, as of recent, I've been going Cloth+2 pots+Ward with Udyr. It keeps him at the "required" health for buffs. I'll still go back to the old Cloth+pots if they have a strong counter jungle or no jungler at all so I can gank easier.[/quote]

[quote=Wintermond]Vamp Scepter + AD Quints is freaking strong on most Junglers, definitely my favorite combo.[/quote]

[quote=Searz]Yea, same here :) Lemme guess, I was the one who got you to try it? :3[/quote]

[quote=theBMB][quote=Jebus McAzn] 4 minutes still isn't a good time for a jungler. Even with Long Sword, Warwick is still slow. Consider that Udyr can clear his jungle in 3:30. [/quote] I don't know if saying it isn't a "good" time is appropriate, I mean most general games, a 4 minute clear time is enough to keep you at the same level as your mid and solo. 3:30 is exceptionally fast more like. I should actually time my jungle run though, I'm just pulling a number off the top of my head. [quote=Jebus McAzn] It's not a gold advantage; you don't have any jump start on your Wriggle's or your GP10 item after you clear your jungle. Most elixirs wear off after 4 minutes meaning that most junglers will have a one minute window in which they can successfully gank with their potion up, assuming they use it as soon as blue spawns. Stonewall is vehemently against elixirs when jungling and I won't bother to explain - his reasoning is up everywhere. [/quote] fair enough[/quote]