Riot on OP/UP champions

[quote=The_Nameless_Bard]^^ this Played a ranked game last night with Karma and I was dealing twice as much damage as our Orianna with almost identical items. =P[/quote]

[quote=Rudmed]OP: GP,Kennen (so much CC, stunlock an entire team twice), Rumble, Fiddle, Vayne, Udyr, Noct, WW, (Irelia, and Jarvan in their opinion), and not sure who else. UP: Yeah, I'd go on and on.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][color=#ffff00][b]Overpowered:[/b][/color] [[Annie]], [[Corki]], [[Jarvan]], [[Jax]], [[Lee Sin]], [[Nidalee]], [[Singed]], [[Twisted Fate]], [[Udyr]], [[Warwick]], [[Yorick]] Notes:[list] [*] Jax was indicated as having an OP late-game by Ezreal. [*] Singed - Insane survivability [*] Udyr and WW - Their ridiculous sustain [*] Yorick for his late game ... [*] Lee Sin, was based on my own judgment. He has amazing ratios, sustain, and gap closers/escapes. He has an extremely high skill cap despite being fairly easy to play. I think he could be beastly in the right hands. [/list] [color=#00ffff][b]Underpowered: [/b][/color] [[Anivia]], [[Evelynn]], [[Ezreal]], [[Galio]], [[Garen]], [[Heimerdinger]], [[Karma]], [[Kennen]], [[Leona]], [[Lux]], [[Malphite]], [[Miss Fortune]], [[Morgana]], [[Nunu]], [[Pantheon]], [[Rammus]], [[Ryze]], [[Shen]], [[Sion]], [[Taric]], [[Teemo]], [[Twitch]], [[Urgot]]. Notes:[list] [*] Anivia - Mana Costs [*] Garen lacks a late game. [*] Karma - Mantras not enough to compensate for a lack of Ult. [*] Kennen's stun was nerfed, (edit) and the Zhonya's Ring change really hurt his item-build viability. [*] Leona and Shen both have ignorable damage late game. (Shen sucks early game too) [*] Lux and Morgana - Buffs in pipeline by Riot. [*] Malphite is in the same pot as Galio. He can only initiate with his Ult, and can't do much else after. [*] MF's Ult recognized as needing buffs [*] Nunu - Nerfed early game with a bad late game [*] Ryze can't perform as a carry despite his rework. (I think he needs to be able to push, and needs a better ultimate; more utility or something) [*] Sion has a broken design. [*] Taric, on the backburner for a buff/rework. [*] Teemo - Only strong point is Shrooms after his kit tweaks, and Oracles wreck that. [*] Urgot - Buffs in pipeline by Riot. [/list][/quote]

[quote=Piksel4o]op? Annie, Rumble up? Kayle, Trundle, Karma imo.[/quote]

[quote=Rudmed][quote=JunSupport Kennen's stun was nerfed, damage not enough to compensate [/quote] Really? Just doesn't feel like it imo, because I still have kennen's nuking me. Just seems unfair that he can stunlock an entire team twice (if he is really good). Though each to their own opinion. Edit: go go broken quotes?[/quote]

[quote=caucheka][quote=JunSupport] [b]Overpowered:[/b] [[Lee Sin]],[[Singed]], [[Twisted Fate]] [/quote] what. tf is getting his ult hit hard in the next patch. i guess that would leave him in the op tier for now but w/e lee sin and singed however, i don't see how either of them are op. i think lee sins ratios are just fine where they are. granted he'll probably be nerfed a little but thats understandable, i wouldnt put him in the op tier though. as for singed, i think he's perfectly fine as is. but NMST is probably going to him him too as well. pity. [quote=junsupport] [b]Underpowered: [/b] [[Ryze]], [[Sion]] [/quote] i feel that ryze is perfectly fine as is right now. he has good damage output with a higher survivability than most mages. and your reason behind sion being underpowered is odd. just because you don't like his design doesn't mean hes up. sure if you're building ap sion his ultimate is pretty worthless but its mostly for pushing towers or getting a proc for lichbane. after all sion was built to be an ad instead of ap. ad sion is godly late game, but the problem is his really lacking early game. on the other hand ap sion has a godly early game but is sort of lacking late game.[/quote]

[quote=Rudmed]^If they nerf singed poison I would be happy with him, because even if you shut him down he farms so well, and in teamfights all he does is run around and fling/slow people. That posion hurts, and when really built, how exactly are you gonna kill him? @Ap Sion..... you've never had a an ap sion two shot you, and have an extra lifebar with his shield have you? Not to mention he was beefy before he even had the extra lifebar.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@caucheka: Until TF gets that Gate nerf, he's still OP. The statement didn't say: "There's 12 champions on the OP list AFTER our next patch." Riot doesn't jump the gun and predict whose OP/UP after patches, because it's generally hard to tell how communities will adapt or respond to the changes. OP doesn't have to mean they're easily abused. Just too strong in the right circumstances. That's why Riot wants to put a stat-farm-cap Veigar and Nasus. Lee Sin can be abusive if you know how to do it. [[Sonic Wave / Resonating Strike]] gives him a really damaging gap-closer. [[Safeguard / Iron Will]] gives him a powerful escape in lane, as well as ridiculously good sustain. [[Tempest / Cripple]] gives him a powerful debuff that lets him wail on opponents. [[Dragon's Rage]] is a powerful finisher that like wipes away health. Most people don't go to the lengths needed to make him look OP, but he does have a high skill ceiling that means he can the potential to deal crazy damage, jump in and out of fights with easy, sustain himself throughout any 1v1 while crippling enemy dps. A well built Singed can't be killed right now. You HAVE to ignore him in team fights because he's the tank, but even if you wipe his team he can run away because "You don't chase Singed!" DAT [[POISON TRAIL]]!! Ryze is suppose to be a "MDPS Carry" now. (magical damage per second) He's not performing his job properly. Maybe Riot just had a bad idea with this rework, but he's not doing what he's suppose to. [u]You can treat him like another mage/nuke.[/u] Sion has the wonkiest design in the game. AP was not intended, but Riot accepted it as fun, though it drops in damage late game. AD needs lots of farm, but the build makes his [[Death's Caress]] suck and his Ultimate, [[Cannibalism]], is underpowered in the current playstyle of the game. There's also been a few posts responded to by Riot that agree he needs looking at. However, he's low priority. @Rudmed: I've never had a problem with AP Sion. I buy a negatron cloak after my first core item, and it shuts down their damage completely. Don't you know how to counter AP Sion in lane? Control the brushes. Don't let him ninja-stun+bomb you. Focus him whenever he's charging his Death's Caress. He loses half his damage output if you pop it. Harass him further for the next 5 seconds after popping his shield; the worst he can do to retaliate is fire his stun, he has no shield to detonate. It cripples his farm, ruins his damage, and means him with only 1 useful skill in the entire game. If Sion and his partner are controlling the lane, well first, good job losing the lane control. Just focus on last hitting, and ward the brush so you can tell when he'll try for a nuke.[/quote]

[quote=Bloofyre]OP: GP, Kennen, Singed, Jax, Jarvan UP: Galio, Taric, Eve[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Rudmed] [quote=JunSupport Kennen's stun was nerfed, damage not enough to compensate [/ quote] Really? Just doesn't feel like it imo, because I still have kennen's nuking me. Just seems unfair that he can stunlock an entire team twice (if he is really good). Though each to their own opinion. Edit: go go broken quotes? [/quote] Didn't see this reply at first. His stun is hard to use (made harder by the duration nerf from 12 seconds to 8) and his nuking is sub-par, they aren't USELESS underpowered like Evelynn or Pantheon, but he's underpowered nonetheless. Kennen also has a bad late game. He's a melee caster, with an RNG ultimate. That means in team fights, he must wait a full moment more then your typical caster to start fighting or risk getting focused; the RNG ult also means that if multiple enemies enter his zone, his ability to apply marks will be greatly reduced. [[Slicing Maelstrom]] is great in fights of 3v3 or less and chasing a running team because only 1~2 will slow enough to be caught in the range. However, the damage and consistency drops against bigger groups. Riot's use of underpowered does not suggest the champion is useless. Just that, there are better balanced choices that make them obsolete. Like, I would take Annie, Brand, or Malzahar over Kennen any day. Also, you forgot a bracket at the end of [quote=JunSupport edit: Oh! And the [[Zhonya's Ring]] split also hit Kennen REALLY hard. As it did with Morgana and Heimerdinger.[/quote]