"Pro" Guides

[quote=dmarco][quote=Searz] I don't understand this whole negative attitude over the pro guides. They're good for the site... [/quote] It's the community reaction that's the problem, not the guides.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf][quote=dmarco] [quote=Searz] I don't understand this whole negative attitude over the pro guides. They're good for the site... [/quote] It's the community reaction that's the problem, not the guides. [/quote] It's really the Pro's reaction to the community that's the problem.[/quote]

[quote=dmarco]Really? I've read the comments, there are comments from users like "Wow, you don't deserve to have high ratings, my guide is much better than yours." or "You make shit guides.", and they respond pretty well to them by basically saying "Well, why don't you do better?". It's people being vocal but providing nothing useful in any discussion. The guides are obviously appreciated - that's why they have high ratings - but certain users (the trend also tends to be over someone who has a guide with the same champion) feel like they can talk down on them just because they haven't provided the most in-depth thing ever.[/quote]

[quote=Lugignaf]Yea... I can see why people don't like that the pros are up there because they're pros but, most of the guides are good. Some of them, (the "pro" alistar guide comes to mind) are just flat out stupid and it's only up there because they're pro. Others like a couple of SaintVicious' guides are good but, he's being an asshole when it comes to criticism. [quote=Saintvicious] No we don't get paid for the guides and if you want more in depth here you go. STEP 1: Press Play STEP 2: Press Tutorial STEP 3: Click Launch There you go. [/quote] Him and the other pros are getting votes from "People who just made accounts". I begin to suspect things when "I made an account just to up vote this" becomes the most used comment. I'm not mad that they're getting these kind of votes but, I'm mad because they're getting them due to their reputation rather than the quality of their guides.[/quote]

[quote=xLiqur]Let them get upvotes for just being pro. They deserve it. Edit: Reading a novel guide isnt going to make you god like, when everything is said and done, you have to play the game and learn that champ through gameplay.[/quote]

[quote=Canoas][quote=dmarco] Really? I've read the comments, there are comments from users like "Wow, you don't deserve to have high ratings, my guide is much better than yours." or "You make shit guides.", and they respond pretty well to them by basically saying "Well, why don't you do better?". [/quote] The thing is some people actually make better guides than the pros, but have score rating because the shitty pro guides get undeserved upvotes. [quote=Searz] I don't understand this whole negative attitude over the pro guides. They're good for the site... [/quote] How are they good for the site? All they did was lower the overall guide quality of the site..[/quote]

[quote=wRAthoFVuLK][quote=dmarco] There's no need for them to explain everything in detail - most of the stuff guides explain here (that I've read, mainly the top ones of each champion) is just what your abilities do, what items do and what items don't do - this is stuff you learn from playing a normal game or two and seeing what the champion does. Then there are paragraphs upon paragraphs of things about countering champions - this is something you learn with experience. A lot of the things these guides dwell on that make them so long to read is just stuff you learn from experience with playing the game. I read all their builds, I understand exactly why they do things and why they don't say the things they don't say - because there's no need to explain things that you learn just from playing the actual game. They just explain the things you need to know specific to that champion (i.e what to build, when to build, how to jungle / how to lane effectively, when to use your skills if it isn't an obvious choice) because that's what you're reading the guide to learn. A guide on Warwick shouldn't be teaching you how to lane vs champions, how to use your ultimate, why you don't build AP or full AD items and stuff like that because [b]that's what you learn from just playing the game[/b]. They are promoting people to learn from experience why not to do things and why not to build things because that's the best way to learn in this style of game. You think all the pros got good because they saw a guide and then used it all the way to the stage they are at? No, they play lots of games, experiment with builds and experiment with all champions and they apply all the knowledge they've learned over their thousand and more games to get to the stage they are at now. What I find funny is one user said "Solomid FTW" while trashing the pro guides. The featured guides on Solomid are almost the same quality wise as the pro guides on here - just with more pictures and videos because they have a format that allows you to easily do these things and little effort is involved in the aesthetics of the guide making process. Maybe it's just me, but if you need a guide to explain to you 100% of the game, you're using guides wrong. Champion guides are meant to be [b]guidelines[/b] to playing that champion. They shouldn't be the length of game walkthrough's and they shouldn't be telling you how to do everything in the game. [/quote] Wrong. Keep in mind, most people who come to this site are newbies, who don't have these general game fundamentals mastered. Yes, pro guides are great for guys like you and me who know most of the game mechanics well already... but for the people that don't, they generally search up the top rated guide, and then for them to find: "normal procedure to rape noobs without pots or something - Wauto~ wait~ Wauto~ wait~ Wauto~ wait~ FLASH-WQ-IGNITE ok he dead l0l." is just bad reputation for the site. It is also not providing what the reader was searching for. As I just mentioned, most people who read guides are newbies, so explaining every bit of detail, even why the fuck you get a deathcap on an AP carry, while it may be BLATANTLY OBVIOUS to you and me, is necessary in a good guide, since many people reading it will not know that info beforehand. The system that we are considering implementing will be a win-win as someone just mentioned earlier...people who know their shit can still look at the pro guides, just go to that section; but for newbies searching top rated guides, the pro guides won't show up in that filter, so they have a higher chance of learning the most possible from the guide they are seeking. Also about solomid, "The featured guides on Solomid are almost the same quality wise as the pro guides on here - just with more pictures and videos because they have a format that allows you to easily do these things and little effort is involved in the aesthetics of the guide making process. " By saying this you make it seem like making guides on solomid look nice is easier than on here...when in fact that is quite untrue; both sites use BBCode, and they have many less features than we do, such as colors, bullets, underline, headers, etc. that make a guide more aesthetically pleasing.[/quote]

[quote=Canoas][quote=wRAthoFVuLK] Yes, pro guides are great for guys like you and me who know most of the game mechanics well already... [/quote] Wrong. The highest rated Pro guide does not give an item explanation, if you already know the item explanation then you wouldn't need to check the guide in the first place. Guides that lack explanations are bad for everyone.[/quote]

[quote=wRAthoFVuLK]Well, MOST pro guides... but Canoas, then they just act like builds which is all most knowledgeable players need anyways...you would still check the guide to see the item purchases and itemization order, and skilling order and runes and masteries and spells, which is all you really NEED...if you see the items, chances are you will understand why they are taken. For instance, if I didn't know to take Rageblade on Nid, but I was experienced, and I saw it in a Nid build, I would be like "oh, that makes sense considering how much you spam for free in cougar form"[/quote]

[quote=The Angry Cookie]Ok I am just throwing this out there not to be mean.. But I think that labeling pro guides is idiotic.. Just bc they have knowledge doesn't mean they are good at writing it down.. Also these pro's aren't even the best.. They got basically last at dreamhack.. Im not say that these teams aren't successful.. But your taking the success of 5 people working well together and interpreting it to thinking that these people are pro guide makers.. Sry im ranting so I will rap it up with an excellent example.. Xaoli's Nidalee guide in MY OPINION, is much more informative and proffesionally made. Im not saying Hotshot isn't probably the most amazing nidalee player but I think experienced moba users will still always make better guides.. This doesn't apply to Elementz so much bc he actually acts proffessional in making his guides..[/quote]