Taggrin's Solo Queue Tier List

[quote=EvilDice]Have thought about making one of these, but this is actually really accurate from a 1700 perspective :) Personally, the only changes I would make are that of ranged carries. I feel Vayne and MF are both too high and Caitlyn is too low. Trundle could also use a bump. philo hog avarice kage irelia op btw[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Restrictnine] Notice that it is from a 1700 elo perspective, and may not fit lower or higher elos.[/quote] This is exactly why Tier Lists need an ELO rating in the title. It won't work on other ELO brackets like say... >2000, or 1300~1500, or even <1000 obviously. Start using prefixes! :P[/quote]

[quote=Joobieo#41288][quote=Searz] [quote=Joobieo] Alistar being anywhere besides tier 1 is wrong.[/quote] Not really. The nerfs hit him pretty hard. [/quote] In team fights he still has a Stun,knockback, and a heal... How is he not a tier 1 champ.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Joobieo] In team fights he still has a Stun,knockback, and a heal... How is he not a tier 1 champ. [/quote] He has a 5~8 second cooldown point after his combo where he's more useless then Heimerdinger without turrets.[/quote]

[quote=Joobieo#41288][quote=JunSupport] [quote=Joobieo] In team fights he still has a Stun,knockback, and a heal... How is he not a tier 1 champ. [/quote] He has a 5~8 second cooldown point after his combo where he's more useless then Heimerdinger without turrets. [/quote] Name better ' tanks ' then. That bumps Alistar down to tier 2 status.[/quote]

[quote=Restrictnine#5232][quote=EvilDice] Have thought about making one of these, but this is actually really accurate from a 1700 perspective :) Personally, the only changes I would make are that of ranged carries. I feel Vayne and MF are both too high and Caitlyn is too low. Trundle could also use a bump. philo hog avarice kage irelia op btw [/quote] Looks like evildice be a little jelly of my uber skillzzzzzzzz[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport][quote=Joobieo] Name better ' tanks ' then. That bumps Alistar down to tier 2 status. [/quote] [[Amumu]] - [[Tantrum]] has a cooldown-mechanic to let him deal more damage as he tanks more aggro. [[Despair]] is a toggle that scales with enemy health to make him a constant threat. [[Curse of the Sad Mummy]] is unrivaled as a AoE CC. [[Singed]] - [[Fling]] is a far more deadly initiate, as Singed can use it to accomplish what Alistar needs two abilities to do (pull an enemy into your group). [[Poison Trail]] lets him deal tons of solid AoE damage, while [[Insanity Potion]] gives him survivability that rivals [[Unbreakable Will]] in terms of utility. [[Jarvan IV]] - Honestly, this guy makes a great tank. All his skills have good base damage. [[Demacian Standard]] gives group armor, [[Dragon Strike]] works with D-Standard for AoE knock-up and an excellent initiate. [[Golden Aegis]] is a powerful AoE slow that follows up amazingly with the aforementioned combo, making any fleeing enemies unable to escape. To top it off: BOOM! [[Cataclysm]] comes, and traps your desired target. (varying in success vs flash) [[Maokai]] Single-TARGETTED blink-stun with [[Twisted Advance]]! It is the best, [b]THE BEST[/b], initiating skill in the game, with [[Arcane Smash]] giving light [u]regular[/u] peels that Alistar can't do. While also packing the often underestimated [[Vengeful Maelstrom]] that veils all allies in heavy damage-reduction. I would take any of these 4 as Tanks on my team any day over "tank" Alistar. Alistar is currently an awkward tanky mage, who needs to build AP to do well, while defensive items cause serious irony in making his Ultimate less significant. He makes a great AP Caster + Off-tank, but he's not a good building tank.[/quote]

[quote=3pthorror]heimer imo is really good for solo queue...you cant lose your lane unless u suck...and its very hard to farm against a good heimer completely zoning u[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@3pthorror: Being good at Heimerdinger is a rare talent.[/quote]

[quote=Restrictnine#5232]Sigh. I had a really great post going then my comp crashed. So sadness. Lets try this again. WOW lots of great feedback!! heres some of what i saw: Lots of alistar and Wukong talk Teemo and kennen too high? Panth too low? morgana j4 too low? cass too low? vlad too high ranged ad's messed up lee sin t1? wowie guys thanks! here we go: Alistar - Actually seen much more in support bot lanes, but heres my reasoning. He just isnt as scary as he used to be. I used to be scared out of my shoes when i saw him, but with his ap ratio nerfs hes just another cc bot that happens to have a tanky ultimate. his heal has no real impact on teamfights, and if you screw up your headbutt pulv combo you are useless for the next 12 seconds, which can cost you the entire fight. Even if you do land it correctly, It just doesnt compare to other initiates like singed or amumu. He will stay high t2 until I see him really change games. Wukong - He got a small ulti buff and bug fixes, which are to be expected. He just isnt the strongest of laners. He gets beat by lots of other top laners: kennen, morde, irelia, udyr, yorick, singed, cho'gath, etc. He has no real sustain, and his damage is meh at best. Right now he feels similar to j4 solo top in terms of damage. Even if he gets ahead in cs or gets a kill, the other champ can come right back and kill him to even it up. A SIDE NOTE: triforce is bad on wukong for a few reasons. Sure his skills make it look like he would be great for triforce, mainly Q which is an auto attack buff. But his ratios are excellent, and it is being wasted by building tank + triforce. Triforce only gives something like 30 ad, and lots of other stats. Treat Wukong like an AD version of katarina. His ratios are ridiculous and you need to abuse it. His base damages are far too low to rely on that plus triforce proc. Its like saying building triforce tank pantheon is OP. Teemo - I actually like him in low tier 1. He is a great counter to a lot of top solo lanes, and his split push is ridiculous. Two things that make him very strong. Not to mention he maintains total jungle control throughout the game. Even if he only shrooms one side of the map, that gives him total map awareness and lets him push freely without reprecussions. Sure, his teamfight is a bit lackluster, but he can still tear teams apart between mushrooms, blind, and proc build. He will stay where he is. Kennen - I'm not sure about him yet... I like him where he is right now. I still havent seen much of him, but I feel like the buffs were pretty big and gave him back what he lost. His laning phase is even stronger than before, and his poke is ridiculous. Plus his aoe ulti shits on uncoordinated teams. I might move him down just a bit, but for now he will stay in tier 1. Jarvan IV - Alright there's something that people need to understand when I talk about champs like Jarvan IV. Sure, his utility is good, and yes his damage isnt half bad for a tank, but that's where it ends. He loses to almost every solo top there is, including weaker ones like lee sin and [maybe?] wukong. His jungle is lackluster, as he has no real sustain and his ganks require him to land his knock up. He just has no place in the current meta. Even his teamfight seems lackluster now. Before he had some real damage and scared the crap outta me. But now hes more of alistar 2.0. Not much more than a nuisance with his sandcastle. Before he had the damage to back it up, but the sandcastle only holds people in place. They can still fight back and do some serious damage. Just not a strong pick IMO. Morgana - I disagree with those of you that said she can do well without farm. I always remember morgana as a scary champ when she had her ap. Her utility without farm is lacking because of two reasons. Her Q is fairly difficult to land, and even when it does it does zero damage without ap. As for her R, it got a little time buff but it is still 3 seconds and without ap the damage is negligible and she is squishy. She cant initiate unless she has high ap, is tanky, or a combination of the two. Philo stone kage's isnt gonna make her much of a threat as it is. Solo mid morgana is good, but pretty gimmicky because her moveset doesnt compare to other ap carries right now. Vladimir - Contrary to morgana, I agree with you guys. I overestimated his ulti, which was one of the few redeeming factors to vlad now. He just doesnt feel very strong anymore. Miss Fortune - She is by design a champ that shits on people early game. Even when ranged ad was solo lane, she was scary to lane against. Now with a soraka or sona she can recklessly trade and come out with full health every time. She has the highest damage in an EU bot lane early game, and Solo queue is about 70% about dominating your lane early game. That is what she's best at. Vayne - You don't see it much, but she is actually VERY high damage output. She is underestimated a lot I think. The nerfs didnt wreck her, they just made her not broken. She is still a VERY strong ranged AD. Caitlyn - I compare her to MF because they have similar purposes. The difference between them is that Caitlyn's harass is a lot more iffy and relies a lot on hitting her Q. Her auto attacks are really lackluster I feel, and she just doesn't do her job as well as MF does. I know a lot of you disagree with that, but my team has played against plenty of both and trust me, given equal skill level MF is FAR scarier than caitlyn is. Casseopeia - She isn't tier 1 because the skill required to play her is insane. Possibly the hardest champ in the game. Action per minute is the standard rating for how much activity a champion requires. The average APM at 1700 elo is about 100 APM. Most cass players i've talked to have said that the APM required to be good with her is somewhere from 150-170 APM. That is ridiculous. That is like 2200 elo status. if you dont CONSTANTLY micro with her, you are losing out on her potential. Yes, she is one of the strongest ap carries in the game, but she is far too difficult to play to be consistently viable. that is why she isnt quite tier 1. You guys prove me wrong and ill move her back. So for changes thus far: Pantheon - I've seen him a few times, and heres my thoughts. He still loses to some of the tanky dps top laners, but his damage is insanity. I would actually put him at mid over top. or even jungle. But late game his damage is ridiculous. Hes going up to tier 1. Kennen - I will move him down just a bit because i think i put him too high. Vlad - going down cuz hes blah. Nasus - going down. I overestimated the buffs. I actually tried him out and i consistently got beaten by other top laners, and even saw him get shit on while watching streams. Hes going back to tier 4. Ashe - Im actually gonna move her up a bit, because I've seen her get work done in bot lane quite often. The slow on her auto attacks really punishes mistakes in lane, and despite her poor damage she can still get some kills. People tend to play overaggressive due to heals, and she punishes mistakes in that sense. Plus that arrow is so sexy. Heimerdinger - Lol. Idk what to think about him. Hes such a hilariously bad champ, but at the same time he cant lose his lane, and he makes pushing so easy. For this I will move him up a bit, but he will still be in tier 4. Skarner - I will dont know, because i actually havent seen a single skarner in a game yet. I find that a bit wierd... usually i cant fricken PICK the new champ much less see him in games lol. still waiting.[/quote]