Ninja_techies
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theBMB
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TF was just straight up OP with a global teleport, it needed to be nerfed, but he might need a slight boost in power now, he still has strong burst when built AP, but recquires a higher competency level when played this way.
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Trojan995 wrote:
If you're playing him AD, I can see your frustration.
However, AP is still a massively potent build for him, and he's still a top-tier AP carry. He has great lane power with his high burst cards, his low CD stun, his sustainable blue card, and his teleport which can help ganking and returning to lane. Late game he has poke that's only rivaled by nidalee, and he's still got very consistent stuns and high damage.
A poke that is outshone in damage, by Kass, Viegar, Annie, and Nidalee. Well 5th place isn't that bad. Blue card takes time, and something to hit in order to be acutally sustainable, he's not malz. Also if the person can't pick a card then they are terrible.
Stuns that require the person to be distracted or dumb to let someone hit you. As for his teleport, situational use for ganking depending on how overextended the enemy is and how much they care when you're 6 and mia. Though if they ward well enough (aka island bush) they will see you coming.
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I don't debate AP is still potent. But once again it comes down to "Why play TF?" He has a stun card, Annie has 2 different ways to AoE stun and those attacks do more damage than Pick A Card, they are also more reliable.
It seems people want to contest this to the end, Annie can out-nuke/out-range/well just beat TF up and down no problem. (Wild Cards are a different story for the range part, but not the point). I'm trying to get it across the nerf to his ulti was overly harsh. Crying OP teleport isn't a ****ing excuse. Let's think for a moment GLOBAL ULTI, if you have a brain and some experience with LoL, THE LOGICAL conclusion is "They have a global ulti on their team I will have to play differently". Crying OP because you can't adjust your play-style to fit the match you're in is you being a bad player.
I'm sure most of us know that building Armor against a heavy AP nuke team is a dumb choice. BUT building MR is a smart one. There is no difference in terms of enemy abilities. They have a global ulti? Well I won't be silly and over-extend or dive their turret unless I know I can at least pull even, going 1 kill for 1.
Anyway, I still maintain the range nerf was overly harsh, they aimed to make TF a less banned champ in higher ELOs. **SUPRISE-PARTY FIDDLE DANCE!!!!** They achieved that goal....Additional bonus round question: "What else did the change do?"
OHHHH I KNOW!!!!! Made TF less fun, less special, less everything. Now he isn't banned or picked (all that often) HOORAY.....
Ya know Trojan, the thing that made me laugh was this, "...and his teleport which can help ganking and returning to lane", line in your post. It just irks me that TF's ulti has been reduced to a summoner spell. Hell not even that, you can't get from the well to your first turret with his new range can you?....
Sorry for the long rant, the change has made a lot of people happy, others not so happy. There are some 69 other champs to play, and that's what I'm doing. Playing other champs, some people can live with the change, others are so very happy that it's nerfed. I think there should be a happy medium. But knowing Riot they will fix what isn't broke and cause more harm than good.
It seems people want to contest this to the end, Annie can out-nuke/out-range/well just beat TF up and down no problem. (Wild Cards are a different story for the range part, but not the point). I'm trying to get it across the nerf to his ulti was overly harsh. Crying OP teleport isn't a ****ing excuse. Let's think for a moment GLOBAL ULTI, if you have a brain and some experience with LoL, THE LOGICAL conclusion is "They have a global ulti on their team I will have to play differently". Crying OP because you can't adjust your play-style to fit the match you're in is you being a bad player.
I'm sure most of us know that building Armor against a heavy AP nuke team is a dumb choice. BUT building MR is a smart one. There is no difference in terms of enemy abilities. They have a global ulti? Well I won't be silly and over-extend or dive their turret unless I know I can at least pull even, going 1 kill for 1.
Anyway, I still maintain the range nerf was overly harsh, they aimed to make TF a less banned champ in higher ELOs. **SUPRISE-PARTY FIDDLE DANCE!!!!** They achieved that goal....Additional bonus round question: "What else did the change do?"
OHHHH I KNOW!!!!! Made TF less fun, less special, less everything. Now he isn't banned or picked (all that often) HOORAY.....
Ya know Trojan, the thing that made me laugh was this, "...and his teleport which can help ganking and returning to lane", line in your post. It just irks me that TF's ulti has been reduced to a summoner spell. Hell not even that, you can't get from the well to your first turret with his new range can you?....
Sorry for the long rant, the change has made a lot of people happy, others not so happy. There are some 69 other champs to play, and that's what I'm doing. Playing other champs, some people can live with the change, others are so very happy that it's nerfed. I think there should be a happy medium. But knowing Riot they will fix what isn't broke and cause more harm than good.
JEFFY40HANDS wrote:
"Why play TF?"
He has a stun, and he can be built ranged AD effectively.
Basically, you put him AD bot with alistar/taric and you have a double stun lane.
He's ultra-situational, but he's viable.
Tri lane for life.
You guys are completely underestimating TF.
The damage on his cards isn't outshone; it's 1500 range and one of the only pokes that does more damage is nidalee's spear toss.
Blue card is incredibly short CD and gives more sustain than any of those champions have.
The stun just requires a lock-in, something that can be done before an engagement easily, and while it is hard during a fight it isn't impossible. The stun is an auto-attack augmentation, which means the person doesn't have to be "dumb" to get hit. It's not morgana's Dark Binding.
Also, the ganks might be situational, but they're far more potent than any other caster's ganks.
His stun is either the shortest CD or the 2nd shortest CD stun in the game. Annie doesn't have 2 AoE stuns, she has a passive that allows her to get off one stun in a fight, maybe two. Also, if you have a lich bane, pick a card easily matches the damage of any of annie's skills.
The nerf to his ultimate was completely legitimate; he was much like pre-nerf evelynn where if you overextended, you'd die. Simple as that. He was #1 pick for both competitive and solo queue play.
Twisted fate being banned less is great. Ideally they want it so no champ has to be banned every game. Twisted fate is being picked less because people saw he was nerfed; they could nerf a champ by just a few points and they still see significant decrease in that champ being played.
His ultimate hasn't been reduced to a summoner spell; teleport has to attach to a minion or ward, while twisted fate's ultimate can go anywhere within 5500 range. Twisted fate's ultimate is shorter CD as well. They're two distinct spells and shouldn't be confused.
It was literally one change! Did you only play twisted fate because you could teleport anywhere? His teleport isn't completely useless, though I admit it's harder to use well. However, he is on-par or outclasses many high-rated casters. He's still as strong as champions like malzahar, karthus, and vladimir. Seriously, the nerf wasn't that harsh.
The damage on his cards isn't outshone; it's 1500 range and one of the only pokes that does more damage is nidalee's spear toss.
Blue card is incredibly short CD and gives more sustain than any of those champions have.
The stun just requires a lock-in, something that can be done before an engagement easily, and while it is hard during a fight it isn't impossible. The stun is an auto-attack augmentation, which means the person doesn't have to be "dumb" to get hit. It's not morgana's
Dark Binding.Also, the ganks might be situational, but they're far more potent than any other caster's ganks.
His stun is either the shortest CD or the 2nd shortest CD stun in the game. Annie doesn't have 2 AoE stuns, she has a passive that allows her to get off one stun in a fight, maybe two. Also, if you have a lich bane, pick a card easily matches the damage of any of annie's skills.
The nerf to his ultimate was completely legitimate; he was much like pre-nerf evelynn where if you overextended, you'd die. Simple as that. He was #1 pick for both competitive and solo queue play.
Twisted fate being banned less is great. Ideally they want it so no champ has to be banned every game. Twisted fate is being picked less because people saw he was nerfed; they could nerf a champ by just a few points and they still see significant decrease in that champ being played.
His ultimate hasn't been reduced to a summoner spell; teleport has to attach to a minion or ward, while twisted fate's ultimate can go anywhere within 5500 range. Twisted fate's ultimate is shorter CD as well. They're two distinct spells and shouldn't be confused.
It was literally one change! Did you only play twisted fate because you could teleport anywhere? His teleport isn't completely useless, though I admit it's harder to use well. However, he is on-par or outclasses many high-rated casters. He's still as strong as champions like malzahar, karthus, and vladimir. Seriously, the nerf wasn't that harsh.
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TF is still a tier 1 carry and here's why:
- Long range, spammable poke with cards. They do damage. Don't give me the ******** that they don't. If you are pushing a lane for a long period of time, Tf will just spam cards all game until you are either forced to initiate or forced to leave the tower. The range is enormous.
- Ultimate gives him the best ganks from mid the game has to offer. If you aren't capable of walking 5 steps out of your lane in order to gank you have a problem.
- Split push ability. No, you can't be bot and teleport all the way to baron anymore. However you can still safely hop from lane to lane, pulling an enemy over to defend against the split push and gaining easy numbers up in a teamfight. This is similar to Nocturne.
- Spamable CC. Seriously, his stun's cooldown is super low, giving him nice utility. Pick a card's cooldown is very low, meaning you can get them gold cards out very quickly.
Everyone knows TF is lackluster in teamfights. But holy ****.. All those strengths mentioned above were still there before his ult got nerfed. It's not like his ult was his only strong ability. TF requires a different, more split push/poke playstyle than other AP carries. So did(and does) nidalee. That doesn't make him a bad champion.
- Long range, spammable poke with cards. They do damage. Don't give me the ******** that they don't. If you are pushing a lane for a long period of time, Tf will just spam cards all game until you are either forced to initiate or forced to leave the tower. The range is enormous.
- Ultimate gives him the best ganks from mid the game has to offer. If you aren't capable of walking 5 steps out of your lane in order to gank you have a problem.
- Split push ability. No, you can't be bot and teleport all the way to baron anymore. However you can still safely hop from lane to lane, pulling an enemy over to defend against the split push and gaining easy numbers up in a teamfight. This is similar to Nocturne.
- Spamable CC. Seriously, his stun's cooldown is super low, giving him nice utility. Pick a card's cooldown is very low, meaning you can get them gold cards out very quickly.
Everyone knows TF is lackluster in teamfights. But holy ****.. All those strengths mentioned above were still there before his ult got nerfed. It's not like his ult was his only strong ability. TF requires a different, more split push/poke playstyle than other AP carries. So did(and does) nidalee. That doesn't make him a bad champion.
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I've found the way to keep the TF ulti as good as ever. Take Flash/Teleport as summoners and make sure your teammates drop 3 wards in each side lane once you're level 6. PROBLEM SOLVED :D
Want to gank? Just use a ward it's oh so easy.....MUWHAHAHAHHA global es #1
Seriously though, the nerf IMO has made TF's QoL (Quality of Life) horrible. No solid AA range, no REAL damage (for this meta...I mean he has damage just not enough compared to the more or less pure nukage mages) no element of suprise. It's just kind of dumb to have such a mediocre kit on such a squishy champ with solid reliable utility. The change to his ultimate was nothing short of too much *****ing from the ignorant masses causing Riot to bend over and change something.
The long and short of it is, TF's ultimate made him TF. The playstyle, the utility, the skill set, it all worked because of his ultimate. With such a drastic change and no compensation TF has become the champ no one cares to play. Those that do are trying to find some new way to play him. Those that did realize there are FAR better champs to play that are more reliable. I'm hoping they toss TF some kind of bone in the near future to make up for his now essentially "global Clairvoyance" ultimate.
If you're playing him AD, I can see your frustration.
However, AP is still a massively potent build for him, and he's still a top-tier AP carry. He has great lane power with his high burst cards, his low CD stun, his sustainable blue card, and his teleport which can help ganking and returning to lane. Late game he has poke that's only rivaled by nidalee, and he's still got very consistent stuns and high damage.