AP udyr: noob stomper?

[quote=NicknameMy]You playing ap-udyr which doesn't have as much survival as tank-udyr... So he relies on [[turtle stance]], every cdr is important. Also you get manaregen for it, to compensate more stance dance. And [[Nashor's tooth]] gives also more attack speed than [[malady]].[/quote]

[quote=BusDriver210]Nashor's Tooth is definitly not crap on AP Udyr. Malady does boost your damage significantly, but using phoenix is not as hit and switch as tiger is. You need to stay in phoenix long enough to get your proc off and sometimes stay it in the majority of the fight if need be. CDR allows you to effectly spam one stance and continue to stack your passive. Turtle is also a major stance while playing AP Udyr. The ability to block incoming damage repeatably is pretty awesome. The shield also syncs with your resists making you really troublesome in teamfights. Focus on maximizing your kit's potential and focus on survival more than straight out damage. AP Udyr doesn't bring the pain unless he can live to proc it. Just my humble opinion. :-p[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@NicknameMy: Please remember that playing AP Udyr is under the premise that you're stomping - Who gives a dam about normal survivability when you're kicking noob ass? Snowball harder and rock them scrubs! Just build an [[Abyssal Scepter]] and WotA or Gunblade and you're good to go! And the attack speed on Nashor's is outweighed by the fact that the CDR is wasted on Udyr. Malady is CHEAPER and therefore would make it easier for AP Udyr to snowball and continue to rampage in the pub-stomp he's in. @BusDriver: Mathematically speaking - Phoenix > Tiger. Phoenix is an AoE so it can hit more units, and it actually does 'moderately' the same amount of damage as Tiger. It's just more end-loaded over being front loaded so you have to be patient. Also, did you know Phoenix stance gives AD? So by switching from Phoenix to Tiger directly, Tiger itself will be stronger too. That means Phoenix is the one to max. LaneUdyr has nice burst, but only ever worked because of his self-sustain - The damage wasn't actually that big of a deal.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]nonono none of this Phoenix dmg vrs tiger dmg garbage. Dumb arguments, not the reason to max one over the other. Tiger is maxed to quickly burst something down and be able to use turtle frequently to boot. it has good single target gank damage, and deals much more damage end game. Phoenix peaks mid game, and allows you to build super tanky and still deal surprising amounts of damage. This is the form that most pro's agree is superior.[/quote]

[quote=Restrictnine#5232][quote=JunSupport] @NicknameMy: Please remember that playing AP Udyr is under the premise that you're stomping - Who gives a dam about normal survivability when you're kicking noob ass? Snowball harder and rock them scrubs! Just build an [[Abyssal Scepter]] and WotA or Gunblade and you're good to go! And the attack speed on Nashor's is outweighed by the fact that the CDR is wasted on Udyr. Malady is CHEAPER and therefore would make it easier for AP Udyr to snowball and continue to rampage in the pub-stomp he's in. @BusDriver: Mathematically speaking - Phoenix > Tiger. Phoenix is an AoE so it can hit more units, and it actually does 'moderately' the same amount of damage as Tiger. It's just more end-loaded over being front loaded so you have to be patient. Also, did you know Phoenix stance gives AD? So by switching from Phoenix to Tiger directly, Tiger itself will be stronger too. That means Phoenix is the one to max. LaneUdyr has nice burst, but only ever worked because of his self-sustain - The damage wasn't actually that big of a deal. [/quote] I disagree with this. Tiger itself has one of the highest AD ratios in the game at 1.8 total AD scaling. Early Brutalizer or Wriggles and you WILL do some serious damage, regardless of who you are up against. People forget about the ratios. At 1.8, even a little bit of AD makes a huge difference. But this isnt about AD udyr lol. I always leave Tiger at 3 for AP udyr because It is the only one that isnt useful with an AP build. Phoenix has poor scaling, but if you get a lot of ap it still hurts like a bitch, and turtle is insane shield. Tiger maxed last. If you REALLY want that extra AS, get AS items. I find that AS runes and zerks are enough for me. I actually don't rely on self-sustain for Lane Udyr. I max Tiger first, followed by Turtle or Bear most of the time. His damage in lane is underrated.[/quote]

[quote=Shrillex]Sounds like fun. Will try out lol.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@Restrictnine: Phoenix damage surpasses Tiger damage the moment you're hitting 2 or more units. And team fights are more important then duels - More kills! Phoenix is still better. AoEs are cool that way~[/quote]

[quote=Restrictnine#5232]But its like Sunfire. Raw damage output isnt always the best. Sometimes you want to focus your damage.[/quote]

[quote=JunSupport]@Restrictine: That's why you have 3 points on [[Tiger Stance]] end-game. lol And focusing is for your carries and nukes to do - Offtanks and tanks focus on causing as much chaos as possible for enemy carries/casters.[/quote]

[quote=Restrictnine#5232]I suppose that works for higher elo... I think top Udyr falls off a bit in high elo... but where i am carry udyr works just fine.[/quote]