Just made this account on this website to tell you how awesome this build is. Literally, i used to think that garen just plain sucks because he does no damage late game. I got 24/3/2 in my first game. +1 ;D

So, Riots final step to kill it is here.

http://www.probuilds.net/guide/NA/1824145167/89197

A Pro AD Garen build.

Kōhai <3 :)

Id have to try it out myself bro and I havent for a long *** time. I understand the thought process of triforce on Garen, but I feel like Shiv does a pretty similar job for much cheaper. I'll give it a shot when I can. Sheen/shiv on top of Garens Q could be pretty crazy.

Put triforce in the optional items, please you have to consider how op that **** is on Garen I can post u a link to my guide which contains the build and images of me using it. Also I have used as a reference to why I made guide, Senpai <3

How is an item with always active move speed comparable to an item that doesnt give move speed at all until you deal damage? Thats not comparable because BC's move speed isnt nearly as reliable. SS/PD Helps you reach and keep pace. BC helps you keep pace granted you can deal constant damage without getting kited.

Now youve totally lost me. It factors in crit but youre judging the item based solely around abilities? What is the point of that? During judgement its not there for its own damage. Its boosting the effectiveness of other items through crit stacking and move speed. Youre not even looking at half of what the item does because your not factoring in Judgment's downtime and theres no way that calculator can factor in the extra hits youll get by keeping pace with all that move speed. Move speed or a slow can be the entire reason you were ever able to deal damage to begin with. How do you place a flat value on that? You cant and that calculator cant. Which is why your outlook is flawed. Youre looking for a clear cut number value to define your choices. What happens on paper and what happens in game are 2 very different things.

Edit: I remember a long time ago you tried telling me that I should swap out BC with LW because LW has more damage. You were looking at raw damage numbers and completely ignoring the utility of the item. Youre doing the exact same thing years later. Youre looking at raw damage and completely ignoring utility. One build might have more damage, but its also gonna get kited out more often with less utility. So in the end, how can you say one is gonna do more than the other. You cant. Youre trying to prove a point when theres no point to make. Every game is different and thats why theres different builds.

Well, you have to be really skilled to use that builder right. It has many little aspects you can test in it but you have to know where it works right and where it works wrong.

As if it works for crit, if you have 5 Infinity Edge, the damage before reduced by armor of 1 second judgment is 1288, you would never reach that without crit. Tho, you have to remember Judgment has a -50% crit penalty. This is the formula for it if you want to calculate it generally: 120+AD*1.1+AD*1.1*CsC*(0.5+CsD)

So, I now changed the builder to work around a Q+Spin combo to lead to the highest damage, without factoring in any CDR and Sorcerer's Shoes so optimal for Statikk Shiv:



As you can see, the damage on Q and per 1 second spin is 100 higher, so yeah, Q + 1 second E deals the same damage and afterwards way more. You can also see that crit is factored into both Judgment and Decisive Strike as their base damages before reduction through armor is higher with less AD but more Crit.

Also, in terms of movement speed, both Statikk Shiv and Black Cleaver give a compareable amount. And this while Black Cleaver grants overall more damage, tankyness and utility with CDR.

I literally 2 shot a Vayne the other day. Q/Shiv and the first tick of E crit and she was gone. A pen build isnt going to do that. Thats the whole point of that build. Its for high damage comps and the others are for tankier comps.

The builds arent about having the highest possible damage. Youre not gonna get away with a pure damage build unless the game is heavily in your favor. Its about having a balance of damage, survivability and utility. I dont care about the meta. I play and share what works for me. I made a whole section in the guide to make that clear. Youve been commenting on this guide long enough to know that this was NEVER about the meta.

Tank Garen has always been the meta, so I dont understand why you think thats just now gonna become a thing. I dont understand that thought process either because you just said what Cleaver does. It counters tanks. All someone needs to do is turn Cleaver against you and it evens out. The last time Cleaver got remade it brought in a ridiculously high damage meta. Thats probably whats gonna happen again.

Your first question: I never had problem with it because youre gonna win sustain if you dont start Dorans. You just have to wait for it to even out. Which doesnt take long. I get pissed every time I see a top laner with Smite. Laners trying to abuse jungle items is exactly what gets them nerfed into the ground. It happened to the original Wriggle's lifesteal when laners started using it and it happened to the original Spirit of the Lizard Elder. And its gonna happen again. But of course laners dont give a **** because theyll just go back to normal items. Ugh... /rant

P.S. Are those calculations even taking into consideration that Garen's abilities crit? I dont see anything on that site to indicate that it is. Dont put all your faith in stuff like that anyway. Thats only looking at raw stats. Its definitely not taking into consideration that stuff like movespeed and slows result in an increase of damage dealt.

How to deal with Smite top laners which have a level advantage over you thanks to clearing a camp?

BTW: I think we will see Garen top lane by Vizicsacsi, the top laner of Unicorns of Love, in the LCS. The shredding power of Garen with Black Cleaver for his tanks is just immense and combine that with that he stomps over Irelia, Hecarim, etc., all which are considered broken currently. It is very likely that tank Garen becomes meta with that.


Also, the magic damage of Statikk Shiv is seriously not that great. In a Q+E combo, Sunfire Aegis would deal more magic damage for that. And for that giving up crit chance, idk...


I also calculated a build against a 86 armor target at leagueoflegendsmath.com. The build with the highest damage is: Mercury's Treads, Youmuu's Ghostblade, Black Cleaver, Last Whisper, 2 Infinity Edge. Seems to be that penetration is even at this low level stronger than additional crit.
With more testing around I can definitly say, "SPIN TO CRIT BUILD PROGRESSION EXAMPLE" is way inferior to "SPIN TO CRIT WITH CLEAVER". I just replaced the 2 items which made the lowest damage difference, which are 1 Infinity Edge and Last Whisper with Randuin's Omen and Maw of Malmortius, which leads to exactly the same build.

Thanks guys. I really appreciate it.

As for the lane match ups, Im figuring that will take care of itself over time through the videos. I could give general advice, but I feel like I would just be repeating whats already on lolcounter or some similar site.

Personally Id prefer if someone just asked me about a matchup, because there could be a specific problem that general advice might not cover.

Spin to Crit started out much like it is right now. It turned into something massive overtime and ended up being a major hassle to update. Im trying to keep it down to what I love to write about and what I know I can invest the time into updating. Its in a place right now where if something crazy happened with Garen or items, I know I could rewrite the whole thing if I needed to and it wouldnt be much trouble. Beyond whats in the guide, Id rather go through that evolution in video form instead of having to rewrite the guide over and over again.

I know some people dont want to watch the videos, but others have said they learned more through them than the guide itself. Either way, I have to do this in a way that I enjoy if Im gonna stay motivated. I hope you guys understand where Im coming from. I want to have fun with this and not have it feel like a job. It did feel like that at one point.

Renewing upvote as well, though it will really be nice if you could include some in lane match up.

I'm glad to see this build updated. Your story is inspiring and your reputation stands for itself in the community. As a fellow fan of Garen I used to be an ardent fan of a predominantly defensive build. Maybe I needed that to get started and learn how to play Garen. Now I know the benefit of the build you have here. Keep up the good work and welcome back after your temporary absence (you never really left it, by the way, thanks to this guide).