Ninja Tabi stand better on itself now? Buffed...

[quote=Luther3000]^ 'Random' is an exaggeration. The dodge was 12%, meaning you'd dodge around 12% of attacks made in a game. Yes, you might get some lucky or unlucky dodges, but it would always end up reducing approximatly 12% of AA damage. I can see what Duff is saying though, and that doesn't account for critical hits either.[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla]Actually duff, you get exactly 100% the same functionality out of dodge as you do with flat DR. Flat DR however, just has much less spikiness, and is therefore more reliable. Yes dodge has a higher possible mitigation, but it also has a lower possible mitigation at an equal chance.[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]no, tabi are better than they were. generate a random number between 1 and 100. do it 100 times, counting each time its 12 or lower. no matter how many times you do it, you will not get a reliable result. you will either end up in situations where you dodge a lot, how unprobable it is, and you will get situations where you won't dodge at all, which is MORE probable than dodging extra.[/quote]

[quote=Luther3000]^ Yes, you will. The result will be that you dodge 12% of the time assuming you repeat the test often enough. Bear in mind that the test you're describing would be performed hundreds of times per game with the old Tabi. It would always end up as 12% over the course of a game. This is basic mathematics.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]I'm not gonna get into a deep long argue about something like this, because this would go on for pages, but I will simply say that the dodge was better, this is not as good, but this is better than nothing and is more balanced than what we had before. I'm just bitter because dodge was OP, but this is a decent replacement.[/quote]

[quote=caucheka]dodge wasnt op at all but it was broken as fuck.[/quote]

[quote=Dr Kasper]The problem also being that the percentage of dodge is relative to how many times you get attacked... take this for instance: 100 attacks x (.12) = 12 aproximate dodges per 100 attacks. But are you really going to get attacked 100 times in a span of 10 secs in a 1v1 battle? We have to do the math more realistically and apply it to real time games. Let's say a yi is going nuts, and he attacks you 30 times in 4 secs, that means 30 x (.12) = 3.6 attacks aproximately dodged. For math's sake let's say he is hitting you for [20 damage] each time. So mathematically he is hitting you for [20 x (30-3.6)] = 528 total damage in the span of 30hits/per 10 secs. So now the new tabi factors in 10% damage reduction Same base damage [20] x the number of times you're getting hit [30] = 600 total damage [600 TD] - [600 x .10] = 600 - [60]= 540 total damage recieved if you get hit 30 times in 10 sec with 20 base damage. BUT! In dodge you don't factor in any damage reduction, because a dodge causes 100% damage reduction for that one event. So if I dodged you 3 times in 30 hits, I actually reduced the damage taken by= 300%! (or 3 full attacks = 60 total reduction in dmg assuming 20 dmg per attack) But a 10% reduction in damage over 30 hits will equal = 2 damage reduction per attack x 30 attacks = 60 dmg reduction total for all 30 attacks. THE SAME AS 12% DODGE. Crazy huh? You can use calculus too, but it's a pain. This is the easiest way to factor in the value of a dodge verusus percentage reduction. Essentially they are the same, although it was fun to dodge attacks, and frustrate the crap out of the other enemy, the difference will allow people to build properly, and prevent noobs from dodging your attack then destroying you (which involves no skill, just a random event) That's my 2 cents worth.[/quote]

[quote=DuffTime]EVEN IF! *Long dramatic pause* It is EXACTLY the same, EVEN if that, Dodge was still better. How many times was a target one hit away from dead, and the carry over extends to kill it, the target dodges 2-3 times consecutively, and the carry dies for it? This was common and frequent even in high elo play. Whether a fight opens with 2-3 dodges or closes with them, dodge was higher spike impact, and therefor better than a consistent damage reduction.[/quote]

[quote=Dr Kasper][quote=DuffTime] EVEN IF! *Long dramatic pause* It is EXACTLY the same, EVEN if that, Dodge was still better. How many times was a target one hit away from dead, and the carry over extends to kill it, the target dodges 2-3 times consecutively, and the carry dies for it? This was common and frequent even in high elo play. Whether a fight opens with 2-3 dodges or closes with them, dodge was higher spike impact, and therefor better than a consistent damage reduction. [/quote] I agree, that's why at the end I stated that even though they are in theory the same. Dodge was still OP becuase of the awesome randomness of giving you 100% damage reduction for an individual event. Whereas the new tabi only give you 10% damage reduction for and individual event. Mathematics deal with events, not string calculations. Because dodge had a 12% chance EVERY SINGLE TIME YOU WERE ATTACKED to give you 100% damage reduction, it turned the tides of a battle alot quicker and alot more sudden than a 10% base reduction for every single event. Dodge was sweet, RIP.[/quote]

[quote=Dr Kasper][quote=Luther3000] ^ 'Random' is an exaggeration. The dodge was 12%, meaning you'd dodge around 12% of attacks made in a game. Yes, you might get some lucky or unlucky dodges, but it would always end up reducing approximatly 12% of AA damage. I can see what Duff is saying though, and that doesn't account for critical hits either. [/quote] Actually your math is incorrect. Like I stated in my earlier post, the 12% chance of dodge applied to every attack, not all the attacks recieved in a game. It's like playing dice, you have a 1/6 chance (16%) of rolling a 1 every time you roll the die, it doesn't matter if you roll the die 100 times, the probablity never changes.[/quote]