Hi guys! I've had some problems with the Internet connection so I've forgotten a bit this also, and... well, I "could" (what the internet letted me do...) try some of your advices ^^

Like this, I tried many items combinations, and the best one following ur advs was first take the Bloodthirster before the Frozen Mallet.
I've tryed also to get it after, and first of all get more HP and a slower, but... well, you can go on without it 5 minutes, always you keep feeding, because, sure, you'll be feeded :D

So, also, thanks :D
And... well, I don't know how do BBcodes, so that's why's missing something...
About the gameplays, I couldn't record noone, because it laggs me ALWWAYS.
The weekend 23-24-25-25 I'll record my best games! :D And don't doubt bout it I'll do my best :D

And again, thank you both 3 :D
Bye take care! ^^

Hello fellow shyvanna player and guide creator :3
You seriously should consider adding a item´s chapter or finish your recipes in the cheat sheet items section of your guide. Otherwise it kinda looks unfinished and seems to lack something.

I did see a few high rated guides with an core item setup in the cheat sheet but they gone into detail with these later on in the guide.
Since I doubt you want to build a carry without lifesteal. Plus I think you should add life steal pretty early in the game or else you wont have the lane sustain to actually win the lane.

best on shyvana is and always will be the same thing you see the pros do. boots pots, wriggle's, phage, atma's, then frozen mallet, wit's end, warmogs.

this would stomp your build and any other glass cannon in the ground.

not to mention your skill order, runes, masteries, and having no lifesteal

What you're saying is insulting. First of all I didn't call you stupid, I said "stupid cheat sheet". Second, why on Earth did you tell me about those numbers if you read my guide? If you would have, you would have known what the real numbers are. Or you did it just to have some motives to tell me my guide doesn't work? :)) Third, I don't trash all the other guides, the top rated ones actually have my praises, and two of them even have my up-votes. That's because I hate two philosophies on Shyvana: the glass-cannon one and the hybrid one. Anyone that builds Shyvana off-tank, and has at least SOME attack speed and AD bonuses has a good guide. Again, I said in my guide that I have no pretensions of my guide being the best or that it's the only way to play Shyvana. Don't take my guide as a counter-example(I don't actually care too much if you like it or not), look at the top-rated one. You must have survivability on Shyvana. My guide may not be the best there is, but the philosophy is, Shyvana must be off-tank. CrushingIce's guide is not the top-rated by accident, this is how most people play Shyvana and it's the correct way.

Also, me being a level 30 player, and buying Shyvana in second two after my game downloaded it's patch, I have tried A LOT of builds. You didn't invent this philosophy, dude, I have tried building her glass-cannon a long time before you even thought of writing this guide(not quite your build, but close enough and with life-steal, ******** it), as I am a Garen player and I actually build him full AD(not with pure offense items like this, but not off-tank either). On Shyvana it just doesn't work well. She is designed to initiate and pull aggro, because, hell, everyone wants a piece of her. She can't poke in and out of combat and she most certainly isn't as godlike OP early-game as Garen is. Of course you can kick but in lane, but when the team fights start you get squashed, basically you have the same problems that Yi, Trynd and GP have, without having their perks. You can win games if you have a good team and a powerful tank that can pull aggro really well(Rammus, Singed, Alistar, etc.), but if NOT you're very, very screwed. It can work, but it's very very unreliable. There's a reason why she's tagged as melee/fighter and NOT melee/carry. All the damage in the world doesn't matter if you die instantly(don't tell me that won't happen, because when they'll see your build the entire enemy team will jump on you and since you're melee you'll most certainly be the first one to die). I have been through that, so stop it with "try my build excuse", that's just outdated. I told the same things to Zedera, and he accepted the constructive criticism and told me that what I said is very correct, but that's just his unorthodox way of playing Shyvana. This is why this site exists, for discussions among it's members, not just it's guides. You have to learn to accept criticism of your guide, especially if the guy that gives it also gives reasons(which you don't even bother to read, I see).

Anyhow, leaving aside my personal opinion on building Shyvana like this, what I find unacceptable(and since you didn't read my comment to the end you didn't answer to this) is that with a build like this, you didn't bother to build any life-steal whatsoever. Why? Have you ever seen a Caitlyn Vayne, Ashe, Miss Fortune, Tryndamere, Master Yi, Gangplank ever be built without a Bloodthirster or a Zeke's Harbinger(sometimes both), You build Shyvana the same way, why the hell not have life-steal? It'll ensure that you don't die in a 1 on 1 duel with another carry who will probably heal himself with almost as much health as the damage that you do...

Another long post, but stay with me, I'm almost done. I have to repeat, you should not post pictures of games if you're not level 30. Those statistics just aren't viable, they're just flashy. You should also try to make your guide more visually appealing by using more BB codes and also give much more info about the choices you do. Your guide feels short and incomplete. But most of all, I am very interested to see your reason for not using life-steal. Are u allergic to these items of something? And I dare you to try to find the irony and insults towards you in my posts :-p.

OMG xD
Well... Let's see...

1. I've didn't opened the cheat-sheet... I readed your guide, stupid.
2. Also, I have not insulted you in any moment, stupid in the up-line only.
3. I want you to know that I stopped reading your comment in the fourth line, why? Because u're talking of things you don't even know... And I'm not gonna read all your comment just cuz I don't wanna read more things that I didn't do.
4. I told you to at least, try my guide and after comment, I suppose you didn't do it, so I'm not gonna waste more time discussing and compar***ing things on both guides. I like people who first critices without trying...

Really Dude... It makes me cry things like this...
I don't wanna know how you critise all the other Shyvana's guide of the other people, because, obviously, your guide is the best guide in the entire world, and if something is not like your guide is not good, Am I wrong? Nah...
I advice you to try others guide, not mine if you want, but at least try others, accept others point of view and do no close on your only way to play... But I repeat you, is just and advice, do whatever you want.

I'm waiting nerviously your comment, I wanna know how many ironies and insults u say to me :D

Take care, bye bye! ^^

BTW, the reason you have those scores is because you're a smurf, think of getting level 30 before making a guide. And believe me, you cannot **** up any of the other demacians in top-lane using a build like this. Poppy and Garen are way too tanky even early game and their damage output is just out of this world. Jarvan IV might not have the same damage, but he's even tankier than them. You only stand a good chance against assassins like Irelia or Xin Zhao, or tanky DPS' which act more like carries(ex, Olaf or Riven).

@Priscatella: About my guide, if you would have read it thoroughly, you would have seen what I wrote there: You cannot trust the ****ing cheat sheet, ********it. It doesn't take into account the AD from Atma's Impaler, nor the extra health you build up from Warmog's Armor, or even the ****ing 30 armor and MR bonus you get from the passive effect of Dragon's Descent. The real values are: 232 AD, 4000 HP, 130 MR and 130 armor . How does that sound, Mr. skeptic?

I hate people like you who just read the stupid cheat-sheet without actually looking at the items and analyzing them. 232 I would say is satisfactory for an off-tank that has an armor lowering skill-shot that also gives more damage, a heavy magic damaging aura that stacks with AD, 33% critical strike chance, an item that further lowers armors by 20 and a double attack which applies heavier damage on the second one. Oh, yeah, let's not forget movement speed increase and the awesome passive from Trinity Force. You don't even have that, cause you've made a ****ing glass-cannon build in which you didn't even include Phantom Dancer :)). I'd say that with an ATS of 1.8(a lot more than what you have) that's more than enough DPS, DPS on a champion with 4000 HP, and over 130 both on armor and MR(how much armor and MR do you have? :-p). It just blows my mind that you would actually say in your comment that such a build is not an off-tank(again, I repeat, 130 armor and magic resist, going to 160 in dragon form and 4k ****ing health points) or that I don't have enough DPS(232 AD with 1.8 ATS and 33% crit chance). What is an off-tank to you, tell me... A thing that has 4 defensive items and just one offensive one? :|. I can get Malphite 3 armor items that also give but loads of health, a Warmog's Armor and an Atma's Impaler Does that make him an off-tank?. of course not, he is a FULL TANK. Same way, people build Sejuani with 4 defensive items and a Frozen Mallet. Does having a 20 AD bonus make her an off-tank? :| And how can you say Atma's Impaler is not a DPS item, when it gives as much AD as IE and a critical strike chance of 18%?

Ok, if you're not satisfied, I have the second build which has 25 more AD. Personally, I gave up on that build because, even if it has more AD, with an ATS(ATS is the most important part of Shyvana's stats) of 1.4 I think the DPS will be lower, even with the armor reduction from Black Cleaver(which, as you can see, I consider a good item too). I don't use it regularly anymore because it also gives less health than the other one and no critical strike chance. The one thing better about it is that it has an on-hit slow that ALWAYS applies, which is very cool. As you can see I have very carefully weighted the advantages and disadvantages of ALL the items that I state in that guide(even the optional ones, which you can find out about if you read the Items chapter)...

On more thing, I know this post is long enough and you probably won't read it till the end, but this I find is unacceptable. You build Shyvana like Master Yi or Tryndamere, yet you fail to put in any life-steal? At all? What were you thinking? It's bad enough your only survivability comes from the little MR bonus you get from Wit's End, but to not get some survivability AT LEAST from life-steal(like all carries do) that is just mind-boggling. My builds are BOTH containing a life-steal item(be it Bloodthirster or Zeke's Harbinger) and my builds are off-tanks(I've seen a lot of people make off-tank builds without life-steal and it can work on some, but on a carry build it's mandatory). You just can't hope to last in a team-fight more than 2 sec with a build like this :|. But anyhow, like I said, solo-top champions heavy on physical damage(unless their name is Master Yi or Tryndamere should NEVER be built glass-cannon).

I really hope you'll read my entire post, as I'm very curious how you'll respond to my very good arguments(at least IMO) on your build and mine.

BTW, I've seen your Shyv's guide also... and... Well, you say Offtank, (And how is Offtank, her main role will be DPS) and... Yeah good 3,4k HP... but 152 AD? That's not even a supporter...

Also, On the item list, I'll put the initial items, not the lasts ones, on the Top Page.

And... well, make a revision of your items, I'm not rlly conviced Atma's Imapler can make good to u. (In a tanky -not offtank- build... why not, but if u are doing her offtank, u dont need that, buy a DPS item.

Trinity Force is a good item... but i preffer to get frozen mallet + last whisp, trust me... realy better, and if u don't believe me... just prove it! ^^

Not a bad guide anyway :)

Mmmh, Madalin, I don't know what idea u have for Offtank... but well... Think that this build with items and runes and masteries... are for crash on Damage... not for HP... so almost 3k of life for a true hard DPS is nothing bad.

And with this build, trust me, you can fxck off really easily so many champions u mentioned, for example, Riven, Jarvan IV, Lee Sin, Phanteon, etc...

I'd say to u to prove my build, then tell me how it worked ^^

Anyway, ty for view my guide and comment ur point of view :)

Another glass-cannon Shyvana build :|... Can you people understand once and for all that Shyvana needs to be built off-tank? It's the one and ONLY viable way of playing her, just like most of the melee DPS's, whether you jungle or play them solo-top: Jarvan IV, Poppy, Olaf, Nasus, Wukong, Riven, Renekton, Irelia, Jax, Warwick, Udyr, Lee Sin, Pantheon, Talon, Trundle, Skarner, (only Garen, Xin Zhao, Nocturne, Tryndamere, Master Yi and Gangplank work full AD, but even with them you have to add in SOME survivability). Glass-cannon builds are no longer viable, except for ranged carries(sometimes not even for them).

Thanks both of you :D ill edit the guide with more pics and items :)

Well here is some advice. Lots of the abilities dont have the tooltip. Also adding a few pictures would be good.

Giving a section on actual laning would be good, like how to zone and not push your lane with her.

The other thing is not getting boots until after a Black Cleaver is a little weird, and in ranked play will leave you very vulnerable.

Optional items would be another great place to start.

For instance boot selection. While Berserkers Greaves are good if you are completely stomping the enemy, Mercery Treads are usually the more viable option.

With a little work, this could be up in the top rated guides.