Well in the current meta, you see around two AD's. Once the meta shifts or nerfs come out, the top tier AD's will change but when I mean by falling off late game, I mean that she isn't very comparable to the other top AD's. If you're against a not top tier AD like Corki or Ezreal, you have a point but when people talk about champions, I assume that you're automatically comparing it to the current meta.
Also about "everything applies to any AD carry", that's true everyone wants to eat the ADC alive but a lot of ADC's can actually do a ton of significant damage without suiciding themselves or having to abandon their team behind.
Also about "everything applies to any AD carry", that's true everyone wants to eat the ADC alive but a lot of ADC's can actually do a ton of significant damage without suiciding themselves or having to abandon their team behind.
Onoku
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Xaioli has a point about the amount of damage you can do in a given time. This is the difficulty i am having with Tristana. I can melt down a single target pretty easy if their whole team isn't trying to rape me. The burst aoe champs are able to create chaos and potentially get away. Her late game is really strong though if I can get the right positioning.
Rocket jump is definitely a great get away/positioning skill, but if I'm using it in the team fights, chances are it is because I'm getting lit up. In this case, I am no longer doing damage, but trying to avoid it.
Rocket jump is definitely a great get away/positioning skill, but if I'm using it in the team fights, chances are it is because I'm getting lit up. In this case, I am no longer doing damage, but trying to avoid it.
As far as I know Graves is pretty much the only viable burst AoE AD carry.
As for the avoiding damage thing, well that's pretty much your main goal on any AD. You're not so much trying to deal damage as you are trying to deal as much damage as you can without dying.
The AD carry is in many ways the core of a team at the moment and if they die generally their team will lose the fight.
As for the avoiding damage thing, well that's pretty much your main goal on any AD. You're not so much trying to deal damage as you are trying to deal as much damage as you can without dying.
The AD carry is in many ways the core of a team at the moment and if they die generally their team will lose the fight.
Mooninites wrote:
this is easily the dumbest thing i have ever read on mobafire
Feel free to prove me wrong, I've been playing AD bot for years in SQ and Premade 5's. Enlighten me.
Edit: imgur.com/4iI9C.jpg
That's why you guys like Trist right? Snowballing on her is easy and that's why she's so "terrored" because she snowballs hard. I won that game easily against bad players because well, it's a normal game. Against good players that know what they're doing, replicating that score is very difficult. Especially when Cho and Nasus flash to Wither and Frozen Heart debuff me, making me virtually useless.
You won a normal game with tristana, congrats. Was i supposed to be impressed by that or something?
Flash + Whither, damn how do i beat that. Oh I guess I'll rocket jump away or simply ult them to get them away from me, ***** hard bro.
I went back and read the rest of your posts, or maybe your hypothetical scenario's, that term would probably fit more aptly.
There is no denying Vayne is strong late-game but her range is significantly shorter than Tristana's, the point of Tristana is to play her as a type of champion who can hit you but you can't hit back. Vayne is easily stronger than Tristana in a 1v1 situation because of her ult, but her sustained damage is on-par with Tristana's not above it. Getting to late-game on Vayne is a totally different story though, she is significantly more difficult to lane with. Why do you think she is never played at higher level competitive player, I'm talking tournament level. I'm willing to bet she'll be sparingly played at Hanover in the next few days, if even at all.
also in regards to Quickdraw vs. Rapid Fire. Tristana's does provide 10% more AS and it lasts almost twice as long. Most team fights are determined within 10 seconds if that, I don't really care if Quickdraw's cooldown is 14 seconds - per/auto attack. I want The most AS and the longest duration, that's why Tristana's Rapid Fire is better.
As far as I know Graves is pretty much the only viable burst AoE AD carry.
As for the avoiding damage thing, well that's pretty much your main goal on any AD. You're not so much trying to deal damage as you are trying to deal as much damage as you can without dying.
The AD carry is in many ways the core of a team at the moment and if they die generally their team will lose the fight.
You are correct Graves is the only AD carry champion with AoE burst. Others would include Twitch who has Spray and Pray, however most don't see him as viable. Corki is also worth noting via his Gatling Gun, but in any regards.
Your point is exactly why Tristana is seen as stronger than Graves or Vayne. She can deal a very high amount of damage (if you ask anyone other than Xaioli) at a safe distance. Thats not to say that Vayne or Graves can't deal large amounts of damage, but they're generally less safe.
anywho I don't even understand what your argument is. It seems to me you're trying to say Tristana falls off-late game in comparison to Graves, the opposite is true. Tristana has a weak mid-game when she's in between her AP ratio's and itemization. Graves is very strong early and mid game and in my opinion falls off late game in comparison to most AD champions. How about you enlighten me on what your argument is
Flash + Whither, damn how do i beat that. Oh I guess I'll rocket jump away or simply ult them to get them away from me, ***** hard bro.
I went back and read the rest of your posts, or maybe your hypothetical scenario's, that term would probably fit more aptly.
There is no denying
Vayne is strong late-game but her range is significantly shorter than Tristana's, the point of Tristana is to play her as a type of champion who can hit you but you can't hit back. Vayne is easily stronger than Tristana in a 1v1 situation because of her ult, but her sustained damage is on-par with Tristana's not above it. Getting to late-game on Vayne is a totally different story though, she is significantly more difficult to lane with. Why do you think she is never played at higher level competitive player, I'm talking tournament level. I'm willing to bet she'll be sparingly played at Hanover in the next few days, if even at all.also in regards to
Quickdraw vs. Rapid Fire. Tristana's does provide 10% more AS and it lasts almost twice as long. Most team fights are determined within 10 seconds if that, I don't really care if Quickdraw's cooldown is 14 seconds - per/auto attack. I want The most AS and the longest duration, that's why Tristana's Rapid Fire is better.Luther3000 wrote:
As far as I know Graves is pretty much the only viable burst AoE AD carry.
As for the avoiding damage thing, well that's pretty much your main goal on any AD. You're not so much trying to deal damage as you are trying to deal as much damage as you can without dying.
The AD carry is in many ways the core of a team at the moment and if they die generally their team will lose the fight.
You are correct Graves is the only AD carry champion with AoE burst. Others would include
Twitch who has Spray and Pray, however most don't see him as viable. Corki is also worth noting via his Gatling Gun, but in any regards.Your point is exactly why Tristana is seen as stronger than Graves or Vayne. She can deal a very high amount of damage (if you ask anyone other than Xaioli) at a safe distance. Thats not to say that Vayne or Graves can't deal large amounts of damage, but they're generally less safe.
anywho I don't even understand what your argument is. It seems to me you're trying to say Tristana falls off-late game in comparison to Graves, the opposite is true. Tristana has a weak mid-game when she's in between her AP ratio's and itemization. Graves is very strong early and mid game and in my opinion falls off late game in comparison to most AD champions. How about you enlighten me on what your argument is
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I'm not really trying to brag over a normal game because it's a normal game, no one really tries am I right? Even if you ignore our elo difference in Normal Queue, if you look at both screenshots, the kill count is astonishingly high. That's because we both snowballed, the result of playing against bad players that don't know how to play against Tristana and kill lanes. Most of the time in normals, people don't take the game seriously or are still learning. In fact, there was a post that I read earlier that someone does their homework in norms. That's fine with me but that definitely isn't tryhard mode. In a high elo or Premade 5's game, good players know how to play against Tristana and she won't have 10+ kills 14+ minutes in the game. No decent players feed like that. What I'm saying is that if a equally farmed Trist and Graves/Vayne enter a team fight, both 0/0/0 , Graves or Vayne will win just because of his pure aoe or burst damage, that's all I'm saying. As a result, she's technically fallen off because she cannot compete with the others damage output.
Also since you brought up the point of "Flash + Whither, damn how do i beat that. Oh I guess I'll rocket jump away or simply ult them to get them away from me, ***** hard bro." You're basically saying that you rocket jump away from your team when bruisers get up in your face THEN, ulting the bruisers back into your abandoned teammates after you've covered your hide. After you're back in position to fight again, your team is most likely dead. You're essentially abandoning your team to save yourself while doing virtually doing no damage since you're hauling ***. Unlike the given examples that I gave (Graves & Vayne), those two will actually chunk the enemy team before hauling *** out. That's why I'm most confused about your points. Yeah, she can escape but is that it she can do for her team?
Regarding Vayne, her damage is steroided so hard and comes in the form of "surprise" if you'd like to call it that. Tumble gives so much burst damage later on when you have a decent amount of AD and her ultimate gives her a AD boost, move speed boost and minor stealth that is fool-proof unless you're hugging the enemy oracle's or playing around near pink wards. Vayne's highly loved because she can literally three shot someone with her huge bonus AD while providing a Condemn that stuns like Tristana's ultimate when you hit someone against a wall but dealing a lot of flat AD damage on top of that. Again, Vayne is really similar to Tristana to be honest but the flat damage from Condemn with the huge amounts of additive AD, mobility and small stealth is just too give to pass up.
Since you talked about Quickdraw and Rapid Fire, yeah Tristana's duration and attack speed steroid is slightly stronger but Graves' Quickdraw is also used for repositioning.Even if it's on a 14 second cooldown, the team fight should be over in at least four seconds. In fact, if you're at least getting an AA ever second, the cooldown on Quickdraw should be virtually endless, giving a bit more options for positioning. If you're in a team fight where the enemy team allows Tristana or ANY ADC to just sit there and shoot at them, yeah they're doing it wrong.
Speaking about Tristana's "very high amount of damage at a safe distance". Yeah, she's good against BAD people that allows themselves to get kited. Most good players know to jump on her and send her packing home far away from her team or to hard snare and 100 to 0 or, to just run to a more suitable position and fight in a better location where Tristana can't kite as much as she'd like. Really, the whole bruiser focusing AD situation can apply to any ranged AD but it depends on how much you can do for your team in this minimal amount of time of you getting focused.
My opinion is that Graves and Vayne are much stronger late game if the players in the game are good and both AD's are equal level on the playing field, including Character Level, Summoner Level, itemization and etc. If you believe differently, that's fine this is the internet share your opinions, no one is going to hang you for not agreeing with someone. Just stop being so snarky about your comments like oh, this is the most ******ed comment I've ever seen on MOBAFire. I'm speaking out of a lot of experience, if you disagree feel free to voice it without disrespecting me and other players that believe the same thing.
Also since you brought up the point of "Flash + Whither, damn how do i beat that. Oh I guess I'll rocket jump away or simply ult them to get them away from me, ***** hard bro." You're basically saying that you rocket jump away from your team when bruisers get up in your face THEN, ulting the bruisers back into your abandoned teammates after you've covered your hide. After you're back in position to fight again, your team is most likely dead. You're essentially abandoning your team to save yourself while doing virtually doing no damage since you're hauling ***. Unlike the given examples that I gave (Graves & Vayne), those two will actually chunk the enemy team before hauling *** out. That's why I'm most confused about your points. Yeah, she can escape but is that it she can do for her team?
Regarding Vayne, her damage is steroided so hard and comes in the form of "surprise" if you'd like to call it that. Tumble gives so much burst damage later on when you have a decent amount of AD and her ultimate gives her a AD boost, move speed boost and minor stealth that is fool-proof unless you're hugging the enemy oracle's or playing around near pink wards. Vayne's highly loved because she can literally three shot someone with her huge bonus AD while providing a Condemn that stuns like Tristana's ultimate when you hit someone against a wall but dealing a lot of flat AD damage on top of that. Again, Vayne is really similar to Tristana to be honest but the flat damage from Condemn with the huge amounts of additive AD, mobility and small stealth is just too give to pass up.
Since you talked about Quickdraw and Rapid Fire, yeah Tristana's duration and attack speed steroid is slightly stronger but Graves' Quickdraw is also used for repositioning.Even if it's on a 14 second cooldown, the team fight should be over in at least four seconds. In fact, if you're at least getting an AA ever second, the cooldown on Quickdraw should be virtually endless, giving a bit more options for positioning. If you're in a team fight where the enemy team allows Tristana or ANY ADC to just sit there and shoot at them, yeah they're doing it wrong.
Speaking about Tristana's "very high amount of damage at a safe distance". Yeah, she's good against BAD people that allows themselves to get kited. Most good players know to jump on her and send her packing home far away from her team or to hard snare and 100 to 0 or, to just run to a more suitable position and fight in a better location where Tristana can't kite as much as she'd like. Really, the whole bruiser focusing AD situation can apply to any ranged AD but it depends on how much you can do for your team in this minimal amount of time of you getting focused.
My opinion is that Graves and Vayne are much stronger late game if the players in the game are good and both AD's are equal level on the playing field, including Character Level, Summoner Level, itemization and etc. If you believe differently, that's fine this is the internet share your opinions, no one is going to hang you for not agreeing with someone. Just stop being so snarky about your comments like oh, this is the most ******ed comment I've ever seen on MOBAFire. I'm speaking out of a lot of experience, if you disagree feel free to voice it without disrespecting me and other players that believe the same thing.
I believe Graves excels in the early-midgame. His auto-attackrange is quite short(especially compared to tristana) Vayne is soooooooo ****ing strong mid-lategame, but her range is short and without some serious business protection she's deadmeat!
Kog is definately the strongest late-game ad. I think vayne might be the second strongest and then a close follow-up with tristana.
Kog is definately the strongest late-game ad. I think vayne might be the second strongest and then a close follow-up with tristana.
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"Carrying"-guide | My reviewservice
"Carrying"-guide | My reviewservice
Xaioli wrote:
That's why you guys like Trist right? Snowballing on her is easy and that's why she's so "terrored" because she snowballs hard. I won that game easily against bad players because well, it's a normal game. Against good players that know what they're doing, replicating that score is very difficult. Especially when Cho and Nasus flash to Wither and Frozen Heart debuff me, making me virtually useless.
I actually don't like playing Trist much because I'm really bad on her. She's just nowhere near as weak lategame as you were initially saying.
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Regarding Tristana's range, I said it once again. Everyone blows their **** on the AD. It's all about what you can do asap especially since everyone and their mother runs Flash. Warwick, Skarner, Ryze and champions that have hard CC aren't really affected by her range because they force you to engage in a terrible fight or they make you abandon your team. Now to her Rocket Jump, it's great for combo killing but it's hilariously bad when you're using it to engage into five people or escaping. If you jump in, you die because bruisers eat you alive. If you run away and escape, you run away from your team and guess who's knocking on your towers in a few seconds after they killed the team you deserted?
Everything in this paragraph applies to any AD carry.
Besides, I never said Tristana was better than either Vayne or Graves, I just strongly disagree that she falls off lategame.