Canoas
<Member>
<Member>
LaronX wrote:
Ehm.. you know how your body stores fat and what cells are?
Basicly everything is somekind of sugar and alcohol. muscel cells are full of proteins. They are made of Amino acid and they are not much diffrent from sugar. So yeah you body can turn you you muscels cells in fat cells not directly but true. But cataboling the muscel and then trun the stuff isn't something he works hard for. Also you should bare in minde if your body does this kind of **** he will most likly not even build up a lot of muscels. Just the needed
have you ever had biology classes? That's not how it works. Your muscle cells number remain the same whether you exercise or not. The bigger your muscle is the bigger the cells are, but the cell count will be the same. If your cell number is duplicating then it means there's something wrong with you. Hyperplasia (increase in number of cells) happens only due to serious illnesses, like cancer, not with exercise.
The cells that store the fat, whatever they're called, are not the same as muscle cells. The only function they have is storing fat, nothing else. When someone gets a liposuction the surgeon is not cutting away their muscle. That doesn't make any sense.
You can't turn muscle cells into fat cells for the same reason your neurons don't turn into bone. Specialization of the cell occurs mainly when you're still a fetus, your body does not possess the ability to change the active DNA at will. If it did then regenerating limbs and nerves would be very easy to do.
LaronX
<Member>
<Member>
Maybe you don't get what I say. This is very possible as my English is quite bad so lets try this again.
The main statement of my text was. There a genetic changes that cause the body to take every energy he got and store it in fat unless it is needed elsewhere to survive. As an example I gave the muscle cells how will most likely be the first once brought to a minimum of number(yes you can decrease and increase the number of you cells bro you do it everyday some cells die some get split circle of life your body does what he must to stay alive) that grants you a certain movement. The “energy” for the fat comes in from of the different Amino acid and alcohol that gets turned into fat. I never said muscle cells get turned into fat cells. The energy from the muscle cell or better said the potential energy that is stored in the structure of a muscle cell can be turned into fat and the body of a person with that genetic change would do it. But it won't most of the time, as it won't even build up that much muscles in first place. This isn't about a biology class I hardly doubt that in most secondary schools Epigenetic are even a topic. They don't work like the good 'ol genetics. It is hard to get examples for that in a way you would get examples for a genetic defect. It isn't one. It is linked to a certain chance that you might get that. So you can be healthy you children can be healthy and then one of you grand children has the same disease as your grand grand father.
It is just not like the normal Mendel genetics so don't think about it that way.
Education
The main statement of my text was. There a genetic changes that cause the body to take every energy he got and store it in fat unless it is needed elsewhere to survive. As an example I gave the muscle cells how will most likely be the first once brought to a minimum of number(yes you can decrease and increase the number of you cells bro you do it everyday some cells die some get split circle of life your body does what he must to stay alive) that grants you a certain movement. The “energy” for the fat comes in from of the different Amino acid and alcohol that gets turned into fat. I never said muscle cells get turned into fat cells. The energy from the muscle cell or better said the potential energy that is stored in the structure of a muscle cell can be turned into fat and the body of a person with that genetic change would do it. But it won't most of the time, as it won't even build up that much muscles in first place. This isn't about a biology class I hardly doubt that in most secondary schools Epigenetic are even a topic. They don't work like the good 'ol genetics. It is hard to get examples for that in a way you would get examples for a genetic defect. It isn't one. It is linked to a certain chance that you might get that. So you can be healthy you children can be healthy and then one of you grand children has the same disease as your grand grand father.
It is just not like the normal Mendel genetics so don't think about it that way.
Education
Canoas
<Member>
<Member>
Muscle cells cannot turn into Fat cells.
Cells replicate before they die, so the number remains the same.
Excess fat, sugar and protein is transformed into fat and stored in the fat cells.
With strength training your muscle cells get bigger (hypertrophy).
With a tumour or an hormonal dysfunction your cell number increases (hyperplasia).
With endurance training your muscle starts storing fat, carbs and microvasular networks appear.
The potential energy of a cell, ATP, does not get turned into fat.
The body already stores every energy in fat unless it's needed elsewhere. That's why if you don't work out the muscles won't need the protein and the protein gets turned into fat. It is not rare genetic change, every single human on this planet has that feature.
Also, epigenetics are a fairly simple thing, but you seem to misunderstand it. All it means is that certain genes are activated and others aren't due to certain triggers. That's how we have muscle cells and bone cells and fat cells with the same DNA. The active genes are different. Some genes will only be activated due to specific traumas or hormone levels, but like I said that's pretty common knowledge. Epigenetics are pretty much irrelevant to the discussion because you don't know the trigger. For such a gene to be activated it needs some sort of trigger, every gene has a different trigger. What if the trigger for whatever gene you're referring to (you haven't mentioned a name so far) is eating like a whale? Yeah, maybe they have the gene but it's still their fault for eating muffins like there' no tomorrow.
Focus more on the disease itself than trying to explain it's origin and we might go somewhere. Whatever information you have about the gene that causes it, even if the information is true, is simply insufficient to form any conclusion.
Actually, why don't you just link the article where you got that information from? It would be a lot easier for me to just get the information from the source. You've made several false statements by now, I'd rather get the truth from a reliable source than from someone whose knowledge of biology comes from yahoo answers. Also, your link doesn't work.
Cells replicate before they die, so the number remains the same.
Excess fat, sugar and protein is transformed into fat and stored in the fat cells.
With strength training your muscle cells get bigger (hypertrophy).
With a tumour or an hormonal dysfunction your cell number increases (hyperplasia).
With endurance training your muscle starts storing fat, carbs and microvasular networks appear.
The potential energy of a cell, ATP, does not get turned into fat.
The body already stores every energy in fat unless it's needed elsewhere. That's why if you don't work out the muscles won't need the protein and the protein gets turned into fat. It is not rare genetic change, every single human on this planet has that feature.
Also, epigenetics are a fairly simple thing, but you seem to misunderstand it. All it means is that certain genes are activated and others aren't due to certain triggers. That's how we have muscle cells and bone cells and fat cells with the same DNA. The active genes are different. Some genes will only be activated due to specific traumas or hormone levels, but like I said that's pretty common knowledge. Epigenetics are pretty much irrelevant to the discussion because you don't know the trigger. For such a gene to be activated it needs some sort of trigger, every gene has a different trigger. What if the trigger for whatever gene you're referring to (you haven't mentioned a name so far) is eating like a whale? Yeah, maybe they have the gene but it's still their fault for eating muffins like there' no tomorrow.
Focus more on the disease itself than trying to explain it's origin and we might go somewhere. Whatever information you have about the gene that causes it, even if the information is true, is simply insufficient to form any conclusion.
Actually, why don't you just link the article where you got that information from? It would be a lot easier for me to just get the information from the source. You've made several false statements by now, I'd rather get the truth from a reliable source than from someone whose knowledge of biology comes from yahoo answers. Also, your link doesn't work.
LaronX
<Member>
<Member>
First par dude that what I said. In most parts. Also the amount of cells does not remain the same. If your Body does not need the celles he kills them. It is not like old people have plenty of muscel celles that are not in use. If the Body think you don't need it catabol the cell and reuses the stuff is possibele.
Second.
No. He dosn't. Most of the fat we eat does not even reach our blood do the amount we eat. Also the Body only stores fat if there is either to much of it or he thinks you will need it. Both can be the case but for a healthy persone this shouldn't be the problem.
Yes every thing need a tigger. But as you said we can't alwayes know it. For higher amount of fat storge it seems to be starving almost to dead. There seems to be a seconde trigger but you can't locate it quite yet. On top of that the tiggers also can be affecte by some mutatione, thats the case I am talking about all the time, I don't got the case yet still searching my books. It is about twins in the U.S and a guy in freche. They seem all be affacted by the same thing as people how almosted starved just in a much harder way.
hm..yes the link does not work...strange it is just the wikipedia enetry to that stuff. Also it is quite insulting to say my knowledge comes form yahoo answers. It mighte be stat I missunderstood some fact, but it does certainle not mean that I don't know what I am talking about.
Second.
No. He dosn't. Most of the fat we eat does not even reach our blood do the amount we eat. Also the Body only stores fat if there is either to much of it or he thinks you will need it. Both can be the case but for a healthy persone this shouldn't be the problem.
Yes every thing need a tigger. But as you said we can't alwayes know it. For higher amount of fat storge it seems to be starving almost to dead. There seems to be a seconde trigger but you can't locate it quite yet. On top of that the tiggers also can be affecte by some mutatione, thats the case I am talking about all the time, I don't got the case yet still searching my books. It is about twins in the U.S and a guy in freche. They seem all be affacted by the same thing as people how almosted starved just in a much harder way.
hm..yes the link does not work...strange it is just the wikipedia enetry to that stuff. Also it is quite insulting to say my knowledge comes form yahoo answers. It mighte be stat I missunderstood some fact, but it does certainle not mean that I don't know what I am talking about.
Canoas
<Member>
<Member>
Show me an article that proves that the amount of cell varies and that the body kills muscle cells when they are not needed. The muscle cells are still there, the number of muscle fibril within the cells just decreases. If you don't work out you'll have the same number of cells but weaker, you don't have a lower number of strong muscle cells. Old people will have less cells because that's what happens when you get old. The replicating ability of a cell will diminish, that's why we die. If it didn't then we would live forever (which has happened before, but the girl got cancer).
Most of the excess fat we eat does not get stored? Really? Funny thing that I can't find any sort of document or even unreliable sources that say that. Since I can't seem to find it, please provide the source.
If you don't know the trigger then it's stupid to even mention epigenetics. It does not matter whether it's there from the beginning or if it's triggered later in life. You don't know how it happened, you just know the effect and it's the effect you should focus on. Show me an article that explains how that disease works. I don't care how the person got it, to this topic all that matters is what the disease does.
A wikipedia entry to epigenetics? How is that useful? I know how epigenetics work, everyone does. It's the reason our body cells get differentiated and the reason for us not to have a dog's sense of smell even though the code for it is present in our DNA. It's mildly interesting, but it has nothing to do with fat. All it is is how genes get activated and that's not being discussed, what's being discussed is what happens after it's activated.
The moment you show me a gene that does what you said it did then I might agree that for some people it's much harder to lose fat and gain muscle due to said gene, no matter how the gene is activated. The reason I use the word "might" is because if it's not common enough to be at least the reason for 1% of the fat people to be fat then it's still completely irrelevant to this discussion.
As far as I know the only genetic difference that will cause someone to get fatter is the metabolism rate, and even then it's not that important. As long as someone doesn't over eat and does the minimum recommended weekly exercise they'll never get overweight.
Most of the excess fat we eat does not get stored? Really? Funny thing that I can't find any sort of document or even unreliable sources that say that. Since I can't seem to find it, please provide the source.
If you don't know the trigger then it's stupid to even mention epigenetics. It does not matter whether it's there from the beginning or if it's triggered later in life. You don't know how it happened, you just know the effect and it's the effect you should focus on. Show me an article that explains how that disease works. I don't care how the person got it, to this topic all that matters is what the disease does.
A wikipedia entry to epigenetics? How is that useful? I know how epigenetics work, everyone does. It's the reason our body cells get differentiated and the reason for us not to have a dog's sense of smell even though the code for it is present in our DNA. It's mildly interesting, but it has nothing to do with fat. All it is is how genes get activated and that's not being discussed, what's being discussed is what happens after it's activated.
The moment you show me a gene that does what you said it did then I might agree that for some people it's much harder to lose fat and gain muscle due to said gene, no matter how the gene is activated. The reason I use the word "might" is because if it's not common enough to be at least the reason for 1% of the fat people to be fat then it's still completely irrelevant to this discussion.
As far as I know the only genetic difference that will cause someone to get fatter is the metabolism rate, and even then it's not that important. As long as someone doesn't over eat and does the minimum recommended weekly exercise they'll never get overweight.
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...along with walking to work and dancing (enough to break a sweat) and some other things...
I, personally, eat very little already, which I realize isn't all that healthy...but I've stayed about the same weight for a while now *shrug*