A Flash Free Season Three!

[quote=GrandmasterD]@Jeffy: Dont apologise for things you mean.I dont think this will lead to the removal but I want to show that [[flash]] is nothing but an excuse for bad positioning. If it's turned into an item no one is forced to buy it. High mobility champs wouldn't buy it and for low mobility it would be an asset. Though this compensation to low mobility champs could be anything, I just gave a simple example. [[Flash]] is taken every single game because it's broken. There is not a single downside to taking it, you're not sacrificing anything for it unlike all other summoner's. Heavy nerfs to [[Flash]] are also acceptable such as a casting time, rework into a dash or silence the user after use for 0.5 seconds. Anyway, people are free to join and it isn't a crusade or anything. Just a project to let people play without [[Flash]] and see if it turns them into better players. No one is obligated to join, it's a project nothing else. @sirell: Great plays are made by using to champion not by something silly as [[Flash]].[/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]I did it already (playing a long time without flash) but then again I mostly prefer AD melee, but also play stuff like Swain etc. It definitely is possible to neglect it, but it's a must as long as it's there. It's just that having Flash around lowers the likelihood that some less "meta" spells become a possible pick in the future. The last nerfs that hit Flash some time ago made some ppl rethink to take Ghost instead, but that's only on the melee champs without hard CC. Altogether to topple Flash's 1st place a whole rework is necessary, simply nerfing it again will just tilt it at some point making it a totally useless spell.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Hyogetaki Hisame] @GrandmasterD : The problem with that "compensation" is that it will never replace a flash. How do you plan to engage with a [[crescendo]] as Sona? walk all the way to the enemy team? Even if your bases stats are so buffed you can actually manage to get there ALIVE, you would be lucky if they are dumb enough to stand there as a pack as you close the distance, even with hecarim's speed, you would be lucky to catch even one. You also say that defensive flash is a bad thing, well, good luck getting away of that angry Jax,Pantheon, Katarina or Irelia who can jump on you every 6 seconds. Take off flash, and you take down a huge number of champions from the "viable" state, make it into an item, and Ezreal, Kassadin, leblanc and other champions with Blink/Jumps become the only viable late game champions as they have access to 6 items while others are forced to sacrifice a slot. [/quote] Buff [[Sona]]'s E to make it a powerful initiate. To get rid of champions with powerful gap-closers use items like Rylai's Mallet and Gunblade.[/quote]

[quote=GrandmasterD][quote=Darcurse] I did it already (playing a long time without flash) but then again I mostly prefer AD melee, but also play stuff like Swain etc. It definitely is possible to neglect it, but it's a must as long as it's there. It's just that having Flash around lowers the likelihood that some less "meta" spells become a possible pick in the future. The last nerfs that hit Flash some time ago made some ppl rethink to take Ghost instead, but that's only on the melee champs without hard CC. Altogether to topple Flash's 1st place a whole rework is necessary, simply nerfing it again will just tilt it at some point making it a totally useless spell. [/quote] I think the best options are: [list] [*] Put it in an item. [*] Give it around 1 sec casting time. [*] Can only be used when not taking damage. [*] Silence the user afterwards for 0.5 seconds. [*] Turn it into a Dash. [/list][/quote]

[quote=Darcurse]Only the Dash option + taking out every "jump over walls" likeliness except for some really small ones. The others... like clutching at straws: Some will fuck up the game, some do close to nothing and some will leave you with a "wtf" since some champs will be screwed while others from the same class will laugh their asses off.[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod]Eh, I'm divided. I think [[flash]] allows people to make up for bad plays as well as it makes them do good plays. I've flashed out of stupid things I did, but I've also flashed to gank over a wall with [[Diana]], enter a brush as [[Nocturne]] ult'ed from a "nearby" ward, avoiding his dash, etc. Flash also is necessary to disengage from bruisers with good mobility/engage tools (Olaf, per example), or to pre-emptively escape from AoE ultis. Taking Flash will value even more any champ with inbuilt flashes/dashes, since Ghost can never replace an [[Arcane shift]]. It's basically the difference from escaping an amumu's ult or eating it just because his AoE had just the range to grab you. Meh, I have mixed feelings. Turning it into a dash, I guess it's ok, but they'd also have to fix dashes: snares must cancel the dash as soon as they hit, I'm sick of seeing [[Graves]] dash the moment he is snared, becoming immobilized further away than he should -.- The "while not taking damage" also seems nice, it allows for pre-emptive flashes, which is the most interesting kind, although it'll increase the value of ignite and other dots in solo lanes as an anti-flash tool.[/quote]

[quote=FalseoGod]By the way, something that was mentioned as a potential nerf target but nothing happened yet was [[oracle's elixir]]. I find it stupidly toxic :/[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla]Why not make it an innate spell that everyone has?[/quote]

[quote=Temzilla][quote=GrandmasterD] @Hyogetaki Hisame: As you can read I have covered the offensive [[Flash]] as well and I still think [[Flash]] should at least be converted into an item. Champions who are fairly dependent on [[Flash]] should be compensated. Actually, as a player who mains [[Xerath]], I don't consider [[Flash]] to be 100% necessary. Offensive [[Flash]]es are never done on him and you shouldn't be in bad positions anyway. [/quote] You realize that if you make flash an item, nothing will change, and everyone will buy it. And if it's overly expensive, only those who NEED to buy it will be punished. If it's not super expensive, your amumu's and such will still be able to be super op and flash ulti you.[/quote]

[quote=Mooninites]In response to the "blink dagger" idea. As I said before champions without an escape will not see competitive play if flash is removed, if you force them to buy an item to flash, and take up an item slot, they will still not see competitive play because that is an entire item they can't get. I think flash promotes a lot of aggressive play and fun play. Removing it would probably backfire and promote much more passive play. We've seen this happen before to, sustain support nerfs were supposed to encourage more aggressive play, in all honesty I think it lead to significantly more passive play bot lane.[/quote]