OTGBionicArm wrote: Armored wimminz = badass.
My posts may be long. If this bothers you, don't read them.
My posts may be long. If this bothers you, don't read them.
Clu Gulager
<Member>
<Member>
lifebaka wrote:
Anyway, the Oatmeal's argument about forcing our children to believe the same things we do would hold more water if it wasn't for the fact that those methods tend to be incredibly unconscious, rather than as overt as they are presented in the comic
+1
Actually, I felt the comic didn't display an overt form of teaching at all. As I was brought up Christian, in Australia, that's how my uncles and aunts taught their children. At church, if your family had a young child, they would be the one to go up to the little wooden box and deposit money in it; training as a young impressionable child to a lifetime of servitude.
Richard Dawkins, author of God Delusion, likens religious beliefs to a virus or a psychological malfunction. Hear me out. To do this, he brought up the moth. The moth is often seen as "suicidal" - they will fly into any source of light, even if it causes their death. Why is this? Moths actually follow celestial lights; they travel via the light of stars, the moon, and the sun. The dawn of humans brought lights in the night that never used to be there before. Moths follow the light that they think is what they normally follow, and then die. They aren't actually suicidal, they're following a psychological/biological imperative, but due to changed aspects in the world, this imperative isn't perfect anymore.
Now to the human side. Children are vulnerable. Since before there were records, children only survived if they believed everything an elder told them, "Swamp = crocodiles", "Rains come in X season, so plant food now", "stand down-wind when hunting". This taken-for-granted aspect of society, the fact that children are taught to respect and believe their elders has carried through since human existence. Children who didn't follow those elder instructions fell into swamps and got eaten by crocodiles, didn't plant crops at the right time and thus died, wiping out these non-believers. Children who did believe and followed elder advice passed on this imperative to their own children and so on and so forth.
The problem with this belief imperative is that as the ages passed, elders not only forced survival instincts on to their children, but religious beliefs too, "if we don't sacrifice someone every day, the sun won't rise", "the Earth is the center of the universe", "cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree".
Children cannot distinguish between survival imperatives and "other stuff". "The stove is hot, don't touch" is taken with as much seriousness as, "I'm going to strap this bomb to you and you'll go to heaven", or "don't yell at mummy, Jesus is always watching", or, "say your prays, thank God for everything you have".
Richard Dawkins, author of God Delusion, likens religious beliefs to a virus or a psychological malfunction. Hear me out. To do this, he brought up the moth. The moth is often seen as "suicidal" - they will fly into any source of light, even if it causes their death. Why is this? Moths actually follow celestial lights; they travel via the light of stars, the moon, and the sun. The dawn of humans brought lights in the night that never used to be there before. Moths follow the light that they think is what they normally follow, and then die. They aren't actually suicidal, they're following a psychological/biological imperative, but due to changed aspects in the world, this imperative isn't perfect anymore.
Now to the human side. Children are vulnerable. Since before there were records, children only survived if they believed everything an elder told them, "Swamp = crocodiles", "Rains come in X season, so plant food now", "stand down-wind when hunting". This taken-for-granted aspect of society, the fact that children are taught to respect and believe their elders has carried through since human existence. Children who didn't follow those elder instructions fell into swamps and got eaten by crocodiles, didn't plant crops at the right time and thus died, wiping out these non-believers. Children who did believe and followed elder advice passed on this imperative to their own children and so on and so forth.
The problem with this belief imperative is that as the ages passed, elders not only forced survival instincts on to their children, but religious beliefs too, "if we don't sacrifice someone every day, the sun won't rise", "the Earth is the center of the universe", "cosmic Jewish Zombie can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree".
Children cannot distinguish between survival imperatives and "other stuff". "The stove is hot, don't touch" is taken with as much seriousness as, "I'm going to strap this bomb to you and you'll go to heaven", or "don't yell at mummy, Jesus is always watching", or, "say your prays, thank God for everything you have".
I'm TFSM, but actually I'm an atheist.
TFSM is more of a spoof on other religions(like christianity mostly) than anything else.
For example, for "our great noodely lord" we say Ramen after each "prayer".
If you want to know more, look here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
TFSM is more of a spoof on other religions(like christianity mostly) than anything else.
For example, for "our great noodely lord" we say Ramen after each "prayer".
If you want to know more, look here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flying_Spaghetti_Monster
Tah beh, or nat tah beh. BOOM! Nat tah beh.
My parents are both missionaries, but my dad did (and still studies) philosophy seriously, so I got a more down-to-earth teaching when it came to Christianity. I'm doing a philosophy degree myself, right now. I get in more arguments with other Christians than I do atheists, I think.
TheLastWolf
<Member>
<Member>
Well, everyone belives in what they want...Really matters if you pray to Jesus, Buda, Yaveh or a flying pasta monster?
The problem is when you arrive to the extremist point. THERE is the problem, not in belive.
The comic is fun and have good points...But hey, thsi is a free world...Now.
The problem is when you arrive to the extremist point. THERE is the problem, not in belive.
The comic is fun and have good points...But hey, thsi is a free world...Now.
-Thanks to The_Nameless_Bard , Xiaowiriamu and myself for this awesome sigs-
-Place for the future guides-
Clu Gulager
<Member>
<Member>
It's exaggerated, of course. Most people will say "tame" things, like, "God believes in you" or "Jesus loves you", or "everyone at church is your family, you can trust them". But each comment, each saying, each word is a nail driven into a metaphorical belief coffin. Once "converted" it is difficult to see the world in any other lens bar the one you were brought up with.
Canoas
<Member>
<Member>
Despite my passionate hatred for organized religion I couldn't get myself to read more than a third of the comic. It's waaaaaaaay too long and mainly boring.
Hello fellow pastafarian!
I wish there was a really cool religion that embraced science. I don't really care if everyone knows that it's pure ********, it would still be pretty awesome. And, once again, I refer to my favourite mithcell and webb sketch for proof on how awesome it would actually be.
And imagine the power of religion on the right hands..
Werepirelord wrote:
I'm TFSM, but actually I'm an atheist.
Hello fellow pastafarian!
I wish there was a really cool religion that embraced science. I don't really care if everyone knows that it's pure ********, it would still be pretty awesome. And, once again, I refer to my favourite mithcell and webb sketch for proof on how awesome it would actually be.
And imagine the power of religion on the right hands..
TheLastWolf wrote:
Really matters if you pray to Jesus, Buda, Yaveh or a flying pasta monster?
IT'S SPAGHETTI, NOT PASTA, YOU HERETIC.
"Moral justification is a powerful disengagement mechanism. Destructive conduct is made personally and socially acceptable by portraying it in the service of moral ends." - Albert Bandura
"Ultimately, if people lose their willingness to recognize that there are times in our history when legality becomes distinct from morality, we aren't just ceding control of our rights to government, but our futures." - Edward Snowden
"Ultimately, if people lose their willingness to recognize that there are times in our history when legality becomes distinct from morality, we aren't just ceding control of our rights to government, but our futures." - Edward Snowden
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candidate a's tax plan is actually worse for someone in your income bracket.. THAT'S ********.. You shouldn't vote on personal gain, you should vote on what you think is right and better for the country as a whole.
Not that I necessarily disagree about how one should vote, but that bit of the comic is really just a minor jab at American politics in specific. Our nominally "conservative" party tends to have economic policies that, by and large, call for the poorer (and larger) socioeconomic classes to shoulder a disproportionately large portion of the tax burden, generally through tax cuts on the richer (and smaller) socioeconomic classes, even though most of their voting base belongs to the poorer (and larger) socioeconomic classes. (I should note that I am personally biased against this party, so my characterization may be slightly off.)
Anyway, the Oatmeal's argument about forcing our children to believe the same things we do would hold more water if it wasn't for the fact that those methods tend to be incredibly unconscious, rather than as overt as they are presented in the comic, and if it wasn't also for the fact that this method is also how we teach our children things like our cultural and societal rules and values. I'd tend to attribute the problems that arise out of this system with bad people, rather than with religion itself; if you took religion out of the equation, all you'd end up with is different reasons for parents to be teaching their children (mostly) the same things.