Views: 2733 Weekly Diamond Jungle Musings - Do NOT Play/Build List
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Hey guys, Lasty here back again with my weekly Diamond Jungle thoughts. Today I'm going to take 2 champions and 2 items and explain why you should NEVER build/play them.
First off lets jump into a discussion on the two DO NOT PLAY champions, drum-roll please....Shaco and Shyvana! Those of you familiar with my AMA will know how much I dislike those 2 champions and for those that missed it I'll explain why below.
Shaco: Shaco, despite the stealth falls into that grey area of being a melee ad carry. Unfortunately as we've seen with Tryndamere and Fiora melee adcs are in a really rough spot right now. Unlike Tryndamere that has some longevity thanks to his ult and Fiora that can go untargetable, Shaco only has deceive which can be completely mitigated by a 400 gold oracles. Shaco does absolutely nothing late game besides split push. He's next to useless in a team fight. Shaco also needs between 4-5 kills early game to really be effective enough to split push late game. When the support can hold of your split push, or anyone with teleport can kill you and then force a 4v5 chances are you should be playing a different champion. Effective warding completely negates his gank paths and engage comps shut him down. As soon as you see a 4v5 engage on their team and they'll be yelling to report the Shaco.
Shyvana: Shyvana USED to be a tier 1 jungler back before the jungle changes that came with Season 3. When evaluating what makes a jungler 'good' or not you want to look at clear times and ganks. In season 2 Shyvana used to have possibly the best clear time in the game. It allowed her to roam into the enemy jungle and beast down camps. She was played for her ability to counter-jungle effectively on her own. Her ganks where never strong, though in Season 2 a HoG directly into a Frozen Mallet was a viable build and it slightly improved her midgame ganks. Counter-jungling isn't as big of a part of jungling as it used to be. Counter-jungling has to be a team effort. I ward enemy buffs and ping my team to collapse on them. Shyvana has incredibly WEAK ganks, and her clear is no longer lightning fast. I repeat just for the members of the class that are a little slower, Shyvana was ONLY played for her ability to counter-jungle. The season 3 changes took that ability away. THERE IS NO REASON TO PLAY THIS CHAMPION. In-fact they are looking into re-working some of her abilities to make her viable again.
There are two items I see in low elo games on junglers that I NEVER see built in high elo games. Wriggles and Rod of Ages are both noob bait items on junglers. We'll get into Rod of Ages first.
RoA: Rod of ages give health, mana, and ability power. Perfect if you want to add some damage and sustain/health to someone with good AP scaling like Cho'gath, Maokai, or Sejuani. On paper RoA looks like it would be great on a ton of junglers. In actuality you should NEVER build this item in the jungle. It is just way too expensive. The reason its viable on a lot of mid laners is because it can be purchased pre-fifteen minutes into the game. RoA stacks as the minutes tick by in the game. An average jungle game won't afford you the gold to purchase RoA until the 20ish minute mark and by that point you won't be able to even stack it in some games. RoA is noob bait in the jungle simply because it isn't cost effective, for nearly the same gold you can grab a Bulwark and be a boon to your entire team w/ similar tank stats. Don't build RoA, if you absolutely feel the need to build some AP, get an abyssal scepter. The magic resist is a tough stat to come by in the jungle and the passive will benefit the rest of your team as well.
Wriggles: Don't build wriggles on ANYONE. It costs 900 gold to upgrade a Madreds into a Wriggles Lantern. That 900 gold is better spent on a kindlegem 10/10 times. For 900 gold you're getting some lifesteal and some AD, which seems like it would be good on people like Xin, Jarvan, Lee sin, and Vi etc. However the damage it adds is fairly negligible and the lifesteal is generally a waste. In the current meta you want your jungler to bring a lot of team utility and tank to the party. Wriggles delays both of those things by 900 gold. Wriggles has been nerfed a few times, and sadly its just not 900 gold better than a Madred's Razor. If you want damage and lifesteal, build a blade of the ruined king. Just know that you won't exactly be tanky come late game. Don't build Wriggles.
I hope this is helpful let me know what y'all think in the comments section.
First off lets jump into a discussion on the two DO NOT PLAY champions, drum-roll please....Shaco and Shyvana! Those of you familiar with my AMA will know how much I dislike those 2 champions and for those that missed it I'll explain why below.
Shaco: Shaco, despite the stealth falls into that grey area of being a melee ad carry. Unfortunately as we've seen with Tryndamere and Fiora melee adcs are in a really rough spot right now. Unlike Tryndamere that has some longevity thanks to his ult and Fiora that can go untargetable, Shaco only has deceive which can be completely mitigated by a 400 gold oracles. Shaco does absolutely nothing late game besides split push. He's next to useless in a team fight. Shaco also needs between 4-5 kills early game to really be effective enough to split push late game. When the support can hold of your split push, or anyone with teleport can kill you and then force a 4v5 chances are you should be playing a different champion. Effective warding completely negates his gank paths and engage comps shut him down. As soon as you see a 4v5 engage on their team and they'll be yelling to report the Shaco.
Shyvana: Shyvana USED to be a tier 1 jungler back before the jungle changes that came with Season 3. When evaluating what makes a jungler 'good' or not you want to look at clear times and ganks. In season 2 Shyvana used to have possibly the best clear time in the game. It allowed her to roam into the enemy jungle and beast down camps. She was played for her ability to counter-jungle effectively on her own. Her ganks where never strong, though in Season 2 a HoG directly into a Frozen Mallet was a viable build and it slightly improved her midgame ganks. Counter-jungling isn't as big of a part of jungling as it used to be. Counter-jungling has to be a team effort. I ward enemy buffs and ping my team to collapse on them. Shyvana has incredibly WEAK ganks, and her clear is no longer lightning fast. I repeat just for the members of the class that are a little slower, Shyvana was ONLY played for her ability to counter-jungle. The season 3 changes took that ability away. THERE IS NO REASON TO PLAY THIS CHAMPION. In-fact they are looking into re-working some of her abilities to make her viable again.
There are two items I see in low elo games on junglers that I NEVER see built in high elo games. Wriggles and Rod of Ages are both noob bait items on junglers. We'll get into Rod of Ages first.
RoA: Rod of ages give health, mana, and ability power. Perfect if you want to add some damage and sustain/health to someone with good AP scaling like Cho'gath, Maokai, or Sejuani. On paper RoA looks like it would be great on a ton of junglers. In actuality you should NEVER build this item in the jungle. It is just way too expensive. The reason its viable on a lot of mid laners is because it can be purchased pre-fifteen minutes into the game. RoA stacks as the minutes tick by in the game. An average jungle game won't afford you the gold to purchase RoA until the 20ish minute mark and by that point you won't be able to even stack it in some games. RoA is noob bait in the jungle simply because it isn't cost effective, for nearly the same gold you can grab a Bulwark and be a boon to your entire team w/ similar tank stats. Don't build RoA, if you absolutely feel the need to build some AP, get an abyssal scepter. The magic resist is a tough stat to come by in the jungle and the passive will benefit the rest of your team as well.
Wriggles: Don't build wriggles on ANYONE. It costs 900 gold to upgrade a Madreds into a Wriggles Lantern. That 900 gold is better spent on a kindlegem 10/10 times. For 900 gold you're getting some lifesteal and some AD, which seems like it would be good on people like Xin, Jarvan, Lee sin, and Vi etc. However the damage it adds is fairly negligible and the lifesteal is generally a waste. In the current meta you want your jungler to bring a lot of team utility and tank to the party. Wriggles delays both of those things by 900 gold. Wriggles has been nerfed a few times, and sadly its just not 900 gold better than a Madred's Razor. If you want damage and lifesteal, build a blade of the ruined king. Just know that you won't exactly be tanky come late game. Don't build Wriggles.
I hope this is helpful let me know what y'all think in the comments section.
later on in the game you might have a spare 900g where you cant buy anything else more important, which you could spend on wriggles
overall though i agree with all
I think you could also do a "how to gank" blog to teach the multiple occasions and ways to gank / towerdive
-Lasty
I've also seen Elder Lizards built on
But well, I don't jungle
I'm pretty sure RoA is core on Swain, which isn't to say you couldn't build a Rylais at some point...you'd have to talk to Throatslasher I don't play mid.
You should build a Madred's razor when you don't really need 1 of the jungler items or mana management isn't a huge issue and you have some sort of attack speed steroid in your kit. Examples include: Volibear, Jarvan, Xin, Lee Sin, and Nunu.
Guys, don't underestimate Madred's razor. For 400 extra gold you get a turbo clear AND armor. Its a really sick item. I build it on a ton of people. For whoever said that it can take buffs away from your teammates....no it can't if you stop hitting the buff when it gets to like 300 health. This problem has literally never happened to me...
Rod of Ages is really good...I see it on Ryze, Anivia, Karthus, Orianna (sometimes), and Swain at really high elo. Its a solid item...also not to be underrated.
To Icecreamy: How is Spirit Stone good on Lee Sin? All 3 of the upgrades are sub-optimal on him?
Well the buff stealing is something I've found, one accidental hit too much and it's gg. Maybe I'm just master of derps, yeah I think that's it :D
About RoA: I literally never buy it:
- I don't play
- I get a
- I get a
both
Disagree